Talk:United Macedonia

Scare quotes

Can we avoid scare quotes please :) There is a Wikipedia policy on this, which I will dig up if you don't want to take my word for it ;) - FrancisTyers 23:36, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes do - if you fail, I'll fill the article with them ;-) --Telex 23:38, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

O Telex, a jeni shqipetar apo jo? Shresoj qe dini shqip. Look at this page from the Albanian Government. There they mention "Macedonian minority in Albania". It means in whole Albania. It's true that they know the number of the ethnic macedonians in mala Prespa, because it's almost 100% populated by Macedonians, not because there is no Macedonians in the other parts of Albania. Actuaaly, there are not official info about the number of the nationality minorities in Albania (Greeks, Macedonians, Aromanians, Romas, Montenegrins etc.). See this [1]. regards, --Amacos 01:34, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

No, you are wrong. According to the Albanian government (and the 1989 census), the number of all Macedonians in all Albania is c. 5,000, and they just happen to all live within the region which you call Mala Prespa; the Albanian government doesn't even recognize the name "Mala Prespa", and there is no formal administrative division corresponding to that region. To say that Albania recognizes Macedonians in Mala Prespa as numbering 5,000 is both inaccurate and POV. A kuptove? --Tēlex 10:12, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

1989? It's 2006 now. In 1989 there has been another regime in Albania. The statistics from that time have nothing to do with the present day situation. Give me new statistics. --Amacos 18:06, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

That's your opinion. The Albanian government still quotes those figures as the official number. --Tēlex 18:48, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Greater Albania?

The majority of Albanians do not use the term Greater Albania as a meaning for unifying all Albanian lands. They usually use the term "Ethnic Albania." --PG-Rated 22:10, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

EXPALIN THIS

Have a read of this article from the Time archives: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,796967,00.html —The preceding

unsigned comment was added by Philhellenism (talk • contribs) 01:23, 8 December 2006 (UTC).

Currency/Bill

What is that supposed currency/bill doing in this article? And why does it say 'bills appearing' when it was a MERE invention of some local BUSINESS MAN that never received any government approval or popularity. Ask anyone from that year and if they ever remember seeing such a bill, the extreme majority of people would say NO. I certainly don't remember seeing that supposed bill in the early 90's being popularised, only later do I discover what it really was after Greeks have so innocently propagated it. Someone should either remove it or include a note that there is no reference what so ever to 'bills appearing', it was a mere drawing some random businessman did.

"extreme" Macedonian nationalists

It is clear that some users are tag-teaming to promote this non-neutral point of view. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that works by using reliable sources. There is absolutely no source that referred to these people as "extreme nationalists". These people do not "claim other peoples lands" they are showing a map of their ethnic boundaries. We are not the ones to add one sided adjectives to the tile of these individuals. You may consider it extreme however I am sure someone else does not. Unless their is a neutral source that refers to them as extreme nationalists it means that they are not. Therefore calling them extreme can only perceived as prejudiced rhetoric. Ireland101 (talk) 04:29, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

But showing a map of their ethnic boundaries (which happen to be everything else, but there ethnic boundaries, is nationalist and extreme - and is one of the main causes of terrorism). I'm really amused you can't see it as you have a similar problem with Albanians (who as a matter of fact have an ethnic majority in some of the areas they desire). So you can call them extreme and nationalist, but when it comes to your own views they're moderate and inevitably right. --Laveol ^T 11:11, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

If what you are saying is true please provide at least ONE source to support your views. As you cannot it shows that your comments must be wrong as no intellectual or reporter on the planet has ever said so. Tell me were the Jews extremists when they spoke about their homeland 80 years ago? What you are doing is emulating age old anti-semetic bigotry and applying it to another ethnic group. Please just consider the fact that you might be wrong as no intellectual on this planet has ever said what you say in your comments and edits. Ireland101 (talk) 16:33, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

If I lived in poor Skopje, I too would claim the rich coastal metropolis of Thessaloniki. That doesnt make me right though... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.5.154.103 (talk) 12:01, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't know what should concern me more:

• The fact that your judgment is that those propagating this are not extremists, -or-
• The fact that if they were not limited to extremists, as you say, then that should automatically apply to all of them! (Which is my own personal assessment from the interactions with the said ethnic group both in Wikipedia and in the real world, but I am not an academic.)

In any case, and for that particular second reason, I have no concern regarding the omission of the word "extremist". BTW, the word "extremist" is sourced by the pro-"Macedonian" author Loring Danforth here (also sourced within the article if you noticed), where he says "The goal of more extreme Macedonian nationalists is to create a "free, united, and independent Macedonia" by "liberating" the parts of Macedonia "temporarily occupied" by Bulgaria and Greece." NikoSilver 11:39, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Revert him

This fellow has POVED the page[2]Megistias (talk) 19:28, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Current PM of FYROM knells in front of image of "United Macedonia"

I added the following to comments to the article but they were immediately removed.

The concept is still widely known and espoused by Macedonian nationalists. In 2008 Prime Minister Nikola Gruevski was photographed leaving a wreath with a large image of "United Macedonia" directly in front of him.'

Someone reverted the edit (twice) claiming the photograph was "taken out of context" but without explaining exactly how such an extreme thing can be misunderstood. The PM of a nation laying a wreath in front of a map showing a third of another country belonging to his own country (and knowing full well the "United Macedonia" map is viewed as a irredentist movement and knowing the current problems between Greece and his own country).... does seem newsworthy. I plan to add it back into the article pending any good justifications by FYROM nationalists explaining why Wikipedians shouldn't be allowed to know about this incident to judge for themselves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Crossthets (talk • contribs) 03:17, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

References

"Solun" will be the capital of Macedonia again"

Incidentally... here is another example from a recent FYROM "human rights" parade in Australia where a large prominent banner declared "Solun will be the capital of Macedonia again" (the Solun they are referring to is already the capital of Macedonia... Thessaloníki in Macedonia Greece) Or is that "out of context" too? Crossthets (talk) 04:00, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

Gora

Republic of Macedonia has recognized Kosovo as Republic. This article is connected with Macedonia, also Gora is now in Kosovo, no more Serbia. Jingby (talk) 12:50, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Wrong paragraph

Although the following perception is not limited to ethnic Macedonians, or extreme nationalists, the majority of ethnic Macedonians usually break down the region of Macedonia as follows, a categorisation which is considered offensive by itself by both Greeks and Bulgarians...

Vardar, Aegean, Pirin Macedonia are provisorily terms used by bulgarian historiography to describe the 3 major parts of region of Macedonia, after Bulgaria, Serbia and Greece take those 3 parts in Balkan wars. I do not know if some of them are offensive to bulgarians, because they are regularly used even today. --Подпоручикъ (talk) 02:28, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Gibberish sentence

I'm sure this sentence has been worked over to death by various partisans on this issue, but I will tell you as a native English speaker that this sentence makes little or no sense:

Although the following perception is not limited to ethnic Macedonians, or extreme nationalists, the majority of ethnic Macedonians usually[citation needed] break down the region of Macedonia as follows, a categorisation which is considered offensive by itself by both Greeks and Bulgarians:

Why is there an "although" at the beginning of the sentence? What is it contrasting with? What exactly is the "categorisation" that is offensive? --Jfruh (talk) 00:03, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

Tempo random guy?

If you (Local Hero) believe that Svetozar Vukmanović, known as Tempo, is a 'random guy' you should delete his quote. However, he was central to Yugoslavia's policy in Yugoslav Macedonia in the 1940s and very central until 1980 when the Macedonian question flared up between Bulgaria and Yugoslavia. If anyone knew what was being said in the 1940s about the Macedonian issue, it was Tempo because he was responsible, after Tito, for saying it. Since the issue interests you, I recommend you read his two books on the question and then re-visit your statement. Politis (talk) 15:39, 31 March 2013 (UTC)

I, like much of the world's population, am unfamiliar with this man. Upon a little bit of further reading, it seems he worked in Macedonia for a period of a few years, kind of on-and-off, in the early 1940s. His main job, it seems, was to strengthen support of the Communist party wherever he went. He does seem to have had a long career, but his work in Macedonia does not seem to be the highlight of it. I'm not against having his quote in the article, it's actually pretty interesting, I just didn't like it positioned at the very beginning as it kind of makes it seem as if his opinion, among all other people who have said anything on the subject, is the correct one. And, actually, the concept of a United Macedonia does not interest me as much as you'd think. --Local hero ^talk 17:55, 31 March 2013 (UTC)