Talk:Union Theological Seminary

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On 25 April 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Union Theological Seminary (New York City) to Union Theological Seminary. The result of the discussion was moved.

Untitled

"It is home to the Burke Theological Library which is second only to the Vatican's Apostolic Library in the scope of its collection."

This statement needs some support or reference -- what criteria are being measured here? (anon.)

The necessary modifying criterion I can think of is "in printed materials". --Wetman 12:06, 9 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

"Bird's-eye view at Claremont Ave. & 122nd St." as a brief snippet of information for the second photograph is wrong, however, I am unsure as to how to correct it because simply clicking the edit tab for the page does not bring up the ability to edit the information grouped with the pictures. As for the picture in question, instead of pointing south, the camera is actually pointing north from between 120th and 119. This can be figured out because it is the chapel of Union that is the main focal point of the picture, but the chapel is south of the tower in the picture, as it is in reality. Also, you can see to the very right of the picture, barely edging its way in, is a section of a building belonging to Barnard, which is also south of Union. So someone with a little more technical expertise than I can fix this mislabeling to read, "Bird's-eye view at Claremont Ave., between 120th and 119th" or something like that (although technically, the picture is also not exactly on Claremont, but rather between Claremont and Riverside - but thats just splitting split hairs I suppose). Flyingfarther 05:13, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Doh, I figured it out. It was right in front of me. I've made the necessary changes. Flyingfarther 05:16, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Design sources for the tower

"Crossing tower of Durham Cathedral isn't accurate. For more likely comparisons, see, for example St Mary Magdalene, Taunton, and the later 15th-century illustrations to the List of towers in Somerset.--Wetman (talk) 16:54, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WP:COMMONNAME

I created a redirect from Union Theological Seminary, New York to here. But actually it probably was the wrong thing to do. Looking at WP:RS and WP:Commonname the mouthful "Union Theological Seminary in the City of New York" probably isn't the commonname. It's done now, but anyone feel free to RM. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:22, 10 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect title

The official name of this institution is Union Theological Seminary in the City of New York. That should be the title, since the colloquial "Union Theological Seminary" has multiple WP pages. I'm going to make a bold move. Carrite (talk) 15:48, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I was unable to move. Carrite (talk) 15:49, 27 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I was able to move and renamed it Union Theological Seminary (New York) as its short name, but retained its official name in the opening section and infobox. The old page name, Union Theological Seminary (Manhattan) is never used by UTS, but the official name seems too long for a Wikipedia page name. Jm3106jr (talk) 07:06, 1 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 13 October 2014

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasuよ! 16:19, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Union Theological Seminary (Manhattan) → Union Theological Seminary – The Union Theological Seminary is the main "Union Theological Seminary" out of the three such seminaries listed in the disambiguation page. --Relisted. George Ho (talk) 03:14, 21 October 2014 (UTC) – Epicgenius (talk) 13:29, 13 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

This is a contested technical request (permalink). Gregkaye ✍♪ 14:21, 13 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Union Theological Seminary (Philippines) also looks pretty well established. Gregkaye ✍♪ 14:21, 13 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Union Theological Seminary (disambiguation) lists 7 organizations, and is any of them dominant? Anthony Appleyard (talk) 21:28, 13 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose, in lieu of substantiation by Epicgenius, as yet another likely faith driven move for ID acquisition . Gregkaye ✍♪ 08:41, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]
- @Gregkaye: It is not me who is making that request; I am just conveying it. I actually would not prefer the article to be moved. This was at the behest of Jm3106jr (talk · contribs). – Epicgenius (talk) 12:35, 21 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Opposition to Move - Disagree

Many thanks to Epicgenius for making this request, even if it seems he would prefer that it not be moved.

I am not sure why Gregkaye and Anthony Appleyard feel this move is unwarranted.

I first moved this article to Union Theological Seminary (New York) as at least more accurate as far as its name and now it is known. It was listed before as Union Theological Seminary (Manhattan) as it still is. But this is too specific and no one knows this seminary as "Union Theological Seminary, Manhattan" even though it is indeed in the Borough of Manhattan. There is no seminary by this name in the United States and yes, it is most certainly the most preeminent seminary and the oldest that bears this name. The one in the Philippines was almost certainly named after it and is not an internationally known theological graduate school unlike its NY namesake.

The 7 organizations listed on the disambiguation page do not even use the same name - with the exception of the one in the Philippines. The other 5 listed are sufficiently distinct in name to not cause confusion. I can see having a message that says "for Union Theological Seminary in the Philippines click here" on the main UTS page, but other than that, I don't see why this is a contested issue. Jm3106jr (talk) 01:21, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

We can try again; the article can be moved to Union Theological Seminary (New York City), which is an amicable resolution for all. Epicgenius (talk) 01:23, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You can always try the same move again if you can provide sufficient evidence to prove that your seminary comfortably meets WP:PRIMARY. However my personal research did not back this conclusion. In the RM you can also mention other optional names like Union Theological Seminary (New York) or Union Theological Seminary, New York, Union Theological Seminary (New York City) or Union Theological Seminary, New York City or other versions right up to Union Theological Seminary in the City of New York. Gregkaye ✍♪ 01:40, 23 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with Epicgenius that moving the article to Union Theological Seminary (New York City) is the amicable solution that should be acceptable to all. Is there agreement? Jm3106jr (talk) 17:29, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I also concur. Epicgenius (talk) 17:30, 29 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

There being no further objections, I have moved the page to Union Theological Seminary (New York City) and I have updated the disambiguation page. Jm3106jr (talk) 19:18, 6 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Union and Columbia

Just to clarify: Union is not a graduate school of Columbia University. It is an independent seminary that is affiliated to Columbia along with several other institutions. Columbia does designate Union as its constituent faculty of theology, but it does not thereby incorporate the seminary or its faculty into the University. The only part of Union that is owned and operated by Columbia is the Burke Library which Union sold to Columbia to stabilize its finances with the proviso that the library would remain within Union and would be perpetually accessible to Union students, staff, and alumni. Interestingly, Columbia did offer to incorporate Union in the 1980s, but the seminary rejected the offer over concerns on academic independence. IACOBVS (talk) 05:33, 29 October 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"ecumenical"

How is Union ecumenical? The word means "embracing the entire world" and hence "including all Christian denominations". Are there any Catholic or Orthodox faculty at all? You know, those two blocks that together make up more than 60% of the world's Christians? Even if there were, Union is obviously a Protestant seminary. Maybe the intended meaning is that it is "pan-Protestant", but that's not "ecumenical". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.204.112.128 (talk) 03:42, 11 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Union has admitted students of all denominations for decades (officially from its founding). It is historically Protestant in the Reformed tradition. Prior to the 1970s, almost all students were from Protestant denominations. After that, Catholic and Orthodox students began to enrol with more frequency (although usually lay students and none training for priesthood). Today, there are certainly Catholic and Eastern Orthodox professors teaching at Union. More recently, students from other faiths have enrolled. --IACOBVS (talk) 07:54, 23 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 25 April 2024

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. – robertsky (talk) 13:37, 2 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

– Per WP:PRIMARYTOPIC.

Of the five other articles listed on the disambiguation page, I cannot find any reference to any of the three Chinese/Japanese schools – whose names are prefixed by a city – as simply "Union Theological Seminary". (As partial title matches, they're probably borderline cases as to whether they should even be listed in the body of the disambiguation page rather than the see also section.)

Union Presbyterian Seminary was known as Union Theological Seminary until 1997, when it became Union Theological Seminary and Presbyterian School of Christian Education. It adopted its current name in 2009, which I believe was done in part to distinguish it from the much better known seminary in New York. (It's not often that organizations do the work of disambiguation for us!) Since then, there has been no conflict between its current name and the proposed title.

I wasn't able to find that much on the Philippine seminary, despite it appearing to be an English-language institution. IACOBVS has suggested that it may have even been named after the seminary in New York.

By contrast, the New York seminary is recognized internationally as a major intellectual centre of mainline Protestantism and liberal theology, serving as the home of Reinhold Niebuhr, Paul Tillich, James Cone, Dorothee Sölle, Delores S. Williams, and Harry F. Ward (WP:PT2). And we can see that, especially relative to the alternatives, it's no less significant to our readers, who view the article about 10 times more often than Union Presbyterian Seminary and 26 times more often than the Philippine seminary (WP:PT1). Graham (talk) 05:41, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Support per nom. A clear primary topic. Recent page views show similar overwhelming numbers. Station1 (talk) 05:17, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support IACOBVS (talk) 06:40, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support Normally I am cautious about these sort of moves, but this seems relatively clear. Walrasiad (talk) 08:53, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Category:Union Theological Seminary (New York City) has been nominated for discussion

Category:Union Theological Seminary (New York City) has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether it complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Graham (talk) 19:05, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]