Talk:Unboxed: Creativity in the UK

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On 21 March 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to UNBOXED: Creativity in the UK. The result of the discussion was not moved.

On 8 August 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to UNBOXED: Creativity in the UK. The result of the discussion was Moved to Unboxed: Creativity in the UK.

Naming

The name "Festival of Brexit" is universally used in the press, and it's now clear that the name "Festival 2022" (or, even "Festival-UK-nospace-star-space-2022") is a working title only. See [1], and also their Twitter page as of today, in which the nature of the asterisk as a footnote reference to "working title" is made clear. In the absence of a well-determined official name, I've moved this article back to the WP:COMMONNAME. -- The Anome (talk) 10:54, 24 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It's all been rebranded, I assume for the last time, so I've renamed the article accordingly. Yaxu (talk) 09:58, 23 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Someone's now trying to remove mention of brexit from the page, that seems unwarranted when all the (independent) press articles are still referring to it as the festival of brexit. Yaxu (talk) 20:28, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

They've rebranded it again: it's been named variously "Festival of Britain 2022", "Festival 2022", "Festival of Great Britain and Northern Ireland", "FestivalUK* 2022", "Festival UK* 2022" (what's with the asterisk?), and now "UNBOXED: Creativity in the UK". Who knows what it will be called next? "Festival of Brexit" remains the colloquial WP:COMMONNAME: see [2], [3], [4], [5], and many other examples.

There's an interesting theory here that "Unboxed" may be a cryptic reference to Brexit (as in Britain coming out of some sort of "box"), but I'm not sure how much credence to put on that. -- The Anome (talk) 21:03, 25 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It seems clear that unboxed is the final name for this collection of events, and all the articles you reference acknowledge the new name, often referring to "festival of brexit" as its former name. So I think keeping UNBOXED as the name of the article is best. However I do think that more people still know it as the "festival of brexit" so that should be more prominent than it now is. Yaxu (talk) 16:51, 2 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've requested a move to resolve the edit warring one way or another. Yaxu (talk) 12:42, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think this needs revisitng. No-one in the festival or in government is referring to this as festival of Brexit, and the lead was therefore wrong to say "the festival of Brexit is..." Rather it should be as I now have it, but better still would be to have the article named for the festival that is *actually taking place* and then use a redirect link from Festival of Brexit so that anyone searching for "Festival of Brexit" will find this right away. The article can remain very clear that the original concept was a festival of Brexit, but it makes no sense to have an article about something that does not actually exist. 212.159.115.41 (talk) 09:20, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Last time a move request was made most if not all reference made to the event in the media called it the Festival of Brexit making it the Common name and therefore what Wikipedia used. You can see all this in the Requested move section bellow.

A quick look seems to show the media still widely uses the "Festival of Brexit" name ([6] [7] {CW WP:Daily Mail}) but that the "Unboxed" name is more used than it was at the last WP:RM ([8] [9]).

If you think that the "UNBOXED: Creativity in the UK" is the most Commonly used name for the event, then your welcome to open a new Move Request. However, I'd caution against this if your primary argument is that it's the Official name used by the "festival and government", as that is not a valid reason to moving a page on Wikipedia. Cakelot1 (talk) 10:38, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I read the previous discussion, but WP:POVNAME applies, and this article fails on that one. When the government and the organisers have consistently called this something else and have specifically distanced the event from Brexit, the term "festival of Brexit" becomes POV. Also, before writing my first comment here, I did a google test. Currently there are about 47,000 hits for "Festival of Brexit" compared to just 25,400 for "Unboxed: creativity in the UK" but that does not take into account that many places will just call it "unboxed" (too ambiguous a phrasing for a google test). It is thus not at all clear that "festival of Brexit" *is* the more common name, and while "festival of Brexit" is perhaps a well known term for *something* - some concept - it is not clear that the concept that the term encompasses is really reflected in an article about "Unboxed:" which is clearly NOT intended to be a "festival of Brexit". 212.159.115.41 (talk) 13:43, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Ref

Icarusgeek Hi, thanks for the efforts in the article. I found an empty ref [10] linking to this website. I think it's a primary source. Should it be removed? ZaniGiovanni (talk) 11:57, 19 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 21 March 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. No prejudice against renomination in the future if it can be shown that RS usage has shifted away from the present title. (closed by non-admin page mover) Colin M (talk) 15:08, 28 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Festival of Brexit → UNBOXED: Creativity in the UK – There has been edit warring on this, but I originally moved it to "UNBOXED: Creativity in the UK" because that's its official name. Newspapers often refer to it as "festival of brexit", but not without also giving its real name. There are however articles using it's real name without referring to "festival of brexit". Yaxu (talk) 12:41, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Some preliminary google searches show much more hits the current title: 42,400,000 for Festival of Brexit [11] vs 135,000 for UNBOXED: Creativity in the UK [12]. Additionally most if not all those that primarily use the UNBOXED name are government sources (e.g: Welsh government, GOV.UK). On the other hand, I would go further than you and say independent sources primarily use Festival of Brexit to refer to the event, something that continues in coverage even very recently (The Independent, Festival of Brexit is £120m ‘waste of money’ and heading for failure, MPs say, FT, How the £120mn ‘Festival of Brexit’ became something much weirder, The Times, Brexit festival? It’s the stuff of dreams, France 24, UK's 'festival of Brexit' begins, without nationalism, The Art Newspaper, As details of the £120m 'Brexit Festival' emerge, will it inspire the UK, or be the Johnson government‘s Millennium Dome? and many more). Evan those that use the names more evenly such as The Guardians article (The Guardian view on Unboxed: so much for the ‘festival of Brexit’) still have to include the name in the title so readers know what there talking about.

All of this is to say that "Festival of Brexit' is (currently at least) by far the most common name, and per WP:COMMONNAME that is all that Wikipedia cares about when naming pages. The official names of things has virtually no baring on what we call it. The name used by reliable sources may shift as the event continues but at current I think it is very clear what the event is primarily known as. Cakelot1 (talk) 13:39, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Weak support These articles might use "festival of brexit" in the title, but they also make clear what its actual name is. Yaxu (talk) 17:57, 21 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Note: Yaxu is the nominator. Thryduulf (talk) 12:02, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I think I was also the one who originally moved the article to the UNBOXED name that I propose again. However I don't have strong feelings about it, hence only supporting myself weakly. Yaxu (talk) 13:39, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose per Cakelot1. The current title is very clearly the current WP:COMMONNAME to the extent that, as someone who is only peripherally following this, I don't think I even knew the official name and I'm not certain I'll remember it tomorrow. Thryduulf (talk) 12:02, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requested move 8 August 2022

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved to Unboxed: Creativity in the UK. (closed by non-admin page mover) — Ceso femmuin mbolgaig mbung, mellohi! (投稿) 03:14, 16 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Festival of Brexit → UNBOXED: Creativity in the UK – Per WP:NPOVNAME, the current name is POV and not in accordance with UK government policy on the festival, nor the organisers, participants etc. of the Unboxed festival, and much of the article is given over to the discussion that disassociates it from the festival of Brexit. Previous discussion has concentrated on WP:COMMONNAME but this does not obviously apply, as "festival of Brexit" has no *direct* association with the Unboxed festival, and the link is not clearly made in common parlance with anyone aware of the current festival. "Festival of Brexit" has twice as many hits as "Unboxed: Creativity in the UK", but that does not take into account those just calling it "Unboxed". In any case, "festival of Brexit" has associations with the festival's origins, but is not a widely used term for the festival as it is. The Unboxed name clearly has sufficient penetration to be know by that, it's actual name, even if the alternative name were not POV. The association with a Brexit festival, however, *is* POV which is against Wikipedia policy. (Note this does not preclude referring to its origins as being described as "a festival of Brexit". That is history, but to call it that now is to take a *stance* on the issue, which is POV. 212.159.115.41 (talk) 14:18, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Not with all-caps for "UNBOXED". No comment on other aspects. —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 15:11, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, yes, agreed completely - I was just going by the existing redirect name that brought me here. Please read the proposal as being to rename to "Unboxed: Creativity in the UK". 212.159.115.41 (talk) 16:12, 8 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support - The WP:POVNAME argument convinces me to support this. Also things have changed - where 'festival of brexit' is mentioned, it's referred to as it's former name, e.g. in the Guardian and Evening Standard. Yaxu (talk) 07:28, 9 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support - A cursory look through 'Google News' shows that the UNBOXED name is most commonly used. Agree that 'festival of brexit' qualifies contextual mention within article (perhaps prominently so), but at this point UNBOXED exists as a different cultural property to 'festival of brexit'. Joewithajay (talk) 16:46, 12 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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