Talk:Ultima Thule (Swedish band)

History

History section changed to "criticisms of Ultima Thule, since, in fact, that's all that was there. Need to find an unbiased history instead of a list of the reasons that leftists suspect Ultima Thule of racist sympathies.

-July 9, 2007

Maybe changing: "Ultima Thule is a Swedish rock band. They play what they call "vikingarock" (viking rock) a style that many says replicates a form of White Power music which is not entirely true sine the genre is just a way of bringing old norse rhythms into rock."

to:

Ultima Thule is a Swedish rock band. They play what they call "vikingarock" (viking rock) a style that many says replicates a form of White Power. Fans of the music however claim that the genre is just a way of bringing old norse rhythms into rock.

would make the article appear more neutral. I'm not sure what the nominator think is non-neutral about this article though since there is no comment from him/her here... Jiiimbooh 15:55, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Neo-nazi group almost never refers to their music as "vikingarock" anymore, because of criticism and doubt it has cause a split dividing music into nationalistic "vikingrock" or neo-nazi "freedomrock".

I boldly re-wrote the whole article. Before, the English grammar was appalling and the text was heavily biased too. I left the hearsay on BSB but requested a verifiable source, if this is not provided in a week or so, I will get rid of it. Wikipedia is no place for smearing. Regards, --Asterion ^{talk to me} 17:32, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry but this is English wikipedia and I cannot read Swedish. --Asterion ^{talk to me} 23:18, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you can get help from someone who does. If you want I could translate some of the vital sections. // Liftarn

Hi there, I finally got around to add the references you requested. In my opinion, the article is in an incredible bad shape: it concentrates on "exposing" the band (about 80% of the article main body) and the text is badly organised. A better structure would be to move all criticism to a separate header and differentiate this from the description of their musical style, influences, etc. Personally I could not care less about their past political stance: As I explained before (see [1]), my interest is circumstantial. Nevertheless, I believe this is still important to mention indeed. On the other hand, it would be a good idea to find reliable sources from mainstream media. Regards, --Asterion ^{talk to me} 18:21, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

You added a reference for "Many of their lyrics are versions of poems and traditional songs by Sven-Bertil Taube and Evert Taube." that was just a link to a list of Taube lyrics (no source of the "many" claim) so I rephrased it a bit. The claim "Many fans saw these as part of a "smear-by-association campaign"" is still unsourced. You gave a link, but the info in the link did not support the claim. The same link was used to support the claim "Ultima Thule had never used any racist lyrics.", but I don't think the source is very reliable. Again I rephrased it. UT often uses ambiguous and/or unclear lyrics so it's hard to tell if they are racistic or not. For inctance in one song they attack an unnamed "they" who "consume Sweden". // Liftarn

This song might be "Proud and Strong" (Stolt och Stark) it is supposed to be aginst the politicians of Sweden or "Vinklingar och Svek" wich is aginst media.

I understand what you are trying to say. Nevertheless, I would not call that implicitly racist. At the end of the day, whatever their political views were, UT were not silly to do something like that. I read somewhere they got criticised a lot for precisely being "unclear", in the sense of not saying what they really thought. Well, I suppose that they had their reasons (i.e. platinum discs :o)). At the end of the day, it comes with the territory: National Romanticism has many times been close related to narrow-minded racialist views. Well, I don't expect you to have heard about him, a Spanish romantic writer called Gustavo Adolfo Becquer, aside being a great poet, he also wrote a malevolent short story titled The Rose of Passion, which was basically a blood libel of a "holy martyr boy" being ritually murdered by Jews. Regarding the source on the lyrics, this is the best I could get from google at the time. I read something else in an English Oi webzine a while back but it seems to have dissappeared since then. I may give it a try at another time anyway. Don't get me wrong, I pretty much like the way their music sounds. I find it very refreshing and new, in the way they mixed styles so sucessfully, but I have no interest on their political views whatsoever. This is what I mean regarding the organisation of the article. Good night and regards, Asterion ^{talk to me} 21:34, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

The band themselves deny that they are racists, but they have made some questionable choises (selling white power records, posing with KKK t-shirts, letting neo-nazis use their studio et.c.) and have lyrics that can be interpreted in different ways. I think they say that the song about "you consume Sweden" is about pollution, not immigration. It is unclear what the lyrics is about and different people have different opinions. // Liftarn

Thanks for the info. Now on the musical side, if you remember I added Dia Psalma to the vikingarock page and I think you removed it. To me they sound similar, with traditional songs such as Maria ga pa vagen, Berserkermarsch and Cecilia Lind (sorry for any typos). I have done some research as I quite like how Dia Psalma's music sounds (pity about not understanding the lyrics) and found that they could be considered somehow as trallpunk. I also read that vikingarock draws heavily from trallpunk. How could you translate the genre into English, if possible? This is the first time I come across the term and I am always eager to learn about new music. Cheers and thanks a lot, Asterion ^{talk to me} 19:20, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Dia Psalma (and Strebers too) have some folk music influences (Halling efter Per Löf is pure folk music). It may have something do with that a father or uncle to one of the band members is a rather known folk musician. Where did you read that vikingarock draws from trallpunk? I have never heard that before. "Trallpunk" is a bit hard to translate. "Trall" means something like a happy melody/tune. Trallpunk is a bit softer and more upbeat, often with some humour in the lyrics. It's not the same as pop punk. I think progg is an influence (Strebers for instance did a cover of a Mikael Wiehe song). Typpical bands are De lyckliga kompisarna and Räserbajs. Viking rock is more traditional rock (or perhaps rockabilly and oi) with lyrics inspired by 19th century viking romanticism. // Liftarn

Even though it can not be denied that Ultima Thule has had connections to right-wing organizations and White Power bands, this article stinks POV. As said above, a large part of the article is about "exposing" the band, and while I guess everything is true, it also has its explanations. In every interview with the band I've read, they state that they do not support any right-wing organization and that the band is not racist. There have also been several cases were they have distanced themselves from racists, for example by stop playing in the middle of songs on concerts because a few people in the audience were doing the Hitler salute. A Google cache of an interview (in Swedish) can be found here. – Elisson • Talk 00:36, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Is this all facts?

Seems as this article only sees and credits the negative part of Ultima Thule and it's members and strongly focus on what they did in the past other then what they do now. Also the article only list the member Bruno Hansen as a member of the band and he left the band long ago. This article needs some reshapeing and quality control because this is not entierly neutral.

Ok, what are the positive part? // Liftarn

Positive: They take in new vikingrock band so that they don't get sucked into the neo-nazi labels. They have good connections with Exit and Hel wich support Exit. They won't allow the Hitler salute during their concerts (as i saw on Sensommarblot). They cut with Midgårds Söner after they went over to the neo-nazi camp. Is this enough or do you want more? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.209.130.235 (talk • contribs)

Do you have sources for that? // Liftarn

It's fact, read the book "med hatet som drivkraft" by Nitton where he explains his life before he joined Exit and left Midgårds Söner. Plus you might want to check out UT:s website and decide for yourself rather than checking Expo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.209.130.235 (talk • contribs)

Ok, do you have any reliable sources? // Liftarn

The book Med Hatet som Drivkraft, read it. What would you name as a "reliable" resource? Check the website by Ultima Thule, let them speak for themselves rather than having people talk for them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.209.130.235 (talk • contribs)

Personal bios and the band themselves aren't exactly reliable. // Liftarn

Why not, why can´t they speak for themselves? Why won't you accept that Ultima Thule aren´t nazis? Nazis themselves hate Ultima Thule because they refuse to be nazis and even going as far as throwing out people with nazi-slogans written on their t-shirts from their concerts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.209.130.235 (talk) 23:36, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Of course the band's website is reliable, when it comes to what the bandmembers think and say about themselves. That should also be mentioned. An article can't just ignore what a band says about itself. I've added a statement that the bandmembers don't consider themselves to be racist with a link to their website. /Jiiimbooh (talk) 17:11, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

WP Concert

"On 6 June 1987 they played together with Agent Bulldogg, Vit Aggression and Dirlewanger at a white power concert in Södertälje." Vit Aggression and Dirlewanger are WP Bands but Agent Bulldog is not.They dont have racist lyrics and later played with more Leftwing Punk Bands and Antiracist Skinhead Bands in Europe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.92.200.200 (talk) 23:07, 23 April 2018 (UTC)