Talk:Ulster Defence Volunteers

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This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 09:36, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Irish Catholics were to blame for "sectarianism" because they didn't join?

And African Americans are responsible for the KKK's bigotry, since not enough of them joined the Klan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.152.126.19 (talk) 11:06, 9 April 2013 (UTC)

I think the article makes it fairly clear that those were the opinions of the Ulster Unionist cabinet minister responsible for organising the UDV, rather than a fact. Mind you that "Sectarianism" section could do with more secondary source discussion as clearly there are alternative viewpoints to that of MacDermott. Keresaspa (talk) 01:18, 8 January 2015 (UTC)

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==Some Basic Errors== Northern Ireland did have a few Territorial Army units, in the period discussed, although there would not have been enough to provide any meaningful assistance, in the event of a German invasion. [A moot point, considering the numbers of British soldiers in Northern Ireland, during 1940 and 1941- over 100,000 at one stage.] The usual title for the precursor of the Ulster Home Guard was "Local Defence Volunteers", the same name used in England [following Anthony Eden's famous broadcast]. The chief difference, between practice in Great Britain and that in Northern Ireland was that "Ulster" created a "Home Guard" overnight, by the simple expedient of turning Special Constables into **potential** soldiers. This would probably have been necessary, regardless of the Stormont Government's worries about nationalists joining the Home Guard, because the force needed to be established quickly and volunteers for the forces were not always very forthcoming. Frankly, Northern Ireland's war record was far from impressive. Recruitment for the forces remained at low levels, rationing was never as extensive as it was in Britain and the industrial disruption, due to strikes (and the usual inaction and pilfering for which the shipyard was notorious), was worse than in any other part of the UK. Brian Barton's well-known and superbly researched book about the Belfast Blitz, published twenty years ago, repeated the joke about a royal visit to the aircraft factory of "Short Brothers and Harland". [You have to imagine a noisy factory.] "Tell me", said the King to a foreman, "How many fighters have you made, this week?" "Forty [or whatever], Your Majesty.", came the reply. "Forty? Why, that's fantastic!" exclaimed the King. "Oh, fighters? Sorry, I thought you said LIGHTERS." It could be said that the need for an "Ulster Home Guard" was more political than military, as the UHG made the Walmington-on-Sea No 1 Platoon look like a crack unit of the Waffen SS. One East Belfast LDV unit decided to set up its "HQ" on a golf course and its members spent the war improving their game, presumably in case the German wanted to settle the Second World War by means of a four-ball tournament. The UHG was yet another example of the shambolic way, in which local authorities and Stormont administered those aspects of defence, for which they were responsible. Belfast Corporation was so badly run that it was suspended, in 1942, and government-appointed Commissioners were sent in to clean up the mess. The somewhat convoluted legal position of "Local Defence Volunteers" was that they would remain civilian police officers, until invasion was imminent, at which point the Governor of Northern Ireland would issue a proclamation, changing their status to that of combatants. This was necessary because the Geneva Conventions forbade civilian police officers from taking part in the hostilites. This is only fair, as they are given the same protection, by the rules of war, as any other civilians. It is clearly incorrect to refer to the "Royal Ulster Constabulary" "B Specials". The Ulster Special Constabulary was a separate force, under its own Commandant, and the RUC, in theory, had to ask for its assistance. Generally speaking, the RUC [regular police] and USC [part-timers] operated separately. The article does very little to emphasise the important distinction, between "country" and "Belfast" specials. In Belfast, the USC merely relieved the RUC of less onerous duties, such as guarding electricity and water infrastructure against sabotage; taking over "beat" duties, one night a week and conducting vehicle checks. By the 1960s, it wasn't unusual for Belfast Specials to be employed on points duty, where traffic lights had failed. The "serious stuff" was always left to the RUC, although, on one occasion, Specials did find themselves in the middle of a riot. The reputation, which the force acquired within the nationalist/Roman Catholic community in Northern Ireland was undeserved. Reports in the Irish News, during the 1960s, were paranoid in tone and expressed an irrational hatred for the Specials; irrational because many Catholics in Belfast never came into contact with them. The force's disciplinary record was very good, a fact which some find surprising, considering its origins in the veterans of the 36th (Ulster) Division. However, those critics are assuming that the loyalists of the first half of the Twentieth Century were cast in the same mould as the so-called "loyalist" gangsters of more recent times. When one compares the record of the USC with that of the Ulster Defence Regiment, the Specials appear positively angelic. It is true that a number of **former** specials were involved in various incidents [notably the fracas at Burntollet] but it must be remembered that these men had already been rooted out of the organisation, which was a police force and set itself high standards of conduct. I can't comment in great detail about the activities of the Specials in country areas, particularly along the border, as my sources of information relate to the Belfast area. I interviewed a number of former specials, during the 1990s and conducted research at the PRO(NI), the Linenhall Library and the Belfast Central Library. I was actually looking for some info about the Mounties and clicked on the USC article, out of interest. I am (or is that "was") Canadian , with British and Irish grandparents.

Last edited at 00:54, 29 August 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 09:29, 30 April 2016 (UTC)