Talk:Ubaidullah Sindhi

More Deoband facts

Kaukab Noorani writes,

From http://www.islamicacademy.org/html/Articles/English/Black%20and%20White.htm

The present head of the Deobandi-Wahaabi-Tableeghi Jama'at, Janab Abul Hasan Ali Nadvi, on page 55 of his book, Sawaanih Maulana Abdul Qaadir Raipuri, says: "In those days Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani's claim and invitations were much talked about, specially in the Punjab, where few Musalmaan localities were free of such talks and discussions would continue. Near the home-town (Dhudiyan) of Hazrat (Abdul Qaadir Raipuri) is a place called 'Bhera'. An aalim there, who was also a student of the family elders of the Hazrat (Raipuri), Hakeem Noorud-deen (Qadiani), was a close devotee and assistant of Mirza Sahib (Qadiani) and had permanently settled in Qadian to be of help to him (Mirza Qadiani) in achieving success for him and for the sake of his companionship. There was much talk in his circle of devotees and in his sphere of influence of the claim of Mirza Sahib to be a person favoured by Allah and for his being blessed with acceptance of his supplication. The Hazrat (Raipuri) had read it somewhere in Mirza Sahib's (Qadiani's) writings that Allah had inspired in him the saying, Ajeebu kulla duaa'ika illaf shurakaa'ika (I will grant all your supplications except those made for your partners), So The Hazrat (Raipuri) in a letter to Mirza Sahib (Qadiani) from 'Afzal Grah' referred to this very inspiration and promise and requested him that since he had no partnership with him (Qadiani) he should make supplication so that he may be given guidance and his breast be opened up. A letter from there written by one Maulvi Abdul Kareem Sahib informed him (Raipuri) that his letter had been received and much supplication had been made for him. So, he should keep reminding about it occasionally. The Hazrat (Raipuri) used to say that in those days a post card cost one Pisa and so he would occasionally post a card to Mirza Qadiani by way of a reminder for supplicating on his behalf."

More about the special disciple of Janab Shah Abdur Raheem Raipuri, Janab Abdul Qaadir Raipuri (whose real name was Ghulam Jeelaani). On page 62 of his book, Abul Hasan Nadvi Sahib writes: "Giving an account of the meetings held by Hakeem Sahib (Noorud-deen Qadiani), he (Abdul Qaadir Raipuri) said 'I used to watch him (Hakeem Sahib) recite every now and then the Qur'aanic verse La ilaaha illa anta Subhaanaka inni kuntu minaz zaalimeen with such compassion that one felt drawn towards it. Then, I would think how a person possessing such ecstasy and nearness to Allah can be so ignoramous? But at the same time I would think in my heart that if Allah is most compassionate and most merciful, and He is undoubtedly so, He cannot leave him in such ignominy". During this journey, he also met Mirza Sahib (Qadiani), and he (Abdul Qaadir Raipuri) used to say that he would sometimes say his prayers behind him (Mirza Qadian) and sometimes separately." Khokhar976

I am considered a Barelvi myself, probably because of my staunch anti-wahhabi stand. However I would say this. Barelvies often cross line in their anti-Deobandi zeal. I respect Maulana Kaukab Noorani because I considered his father Maulana Shafi Aukarvi to be a genuine scholar. However even Maulana Okarvi got carried away in his anti-Deobandism. So if Maulana Kaukab has indeed said that Maulana Ubaidullah Sindhi was a Qadiyani, he has crossed the line. However I have to also consider the fact that this quote comes from the follower of someone who was known for his falsehood. Hassanfarooqi (talk) 21:18, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Older discussions

I have removed the article about his connection with the Qanianese. This is a blatant lie. Mr. Sindhi was a rebel against the British rule and Mirza Ghulam Ahmed of Qadian was anti-rebel, pro British person. Hassanfarooqi 12:50, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

You can check for yourself. References are provided. If you can negate the reference with some solid proof, you are most welcome to prove me a liar. --Khokhar976 15:38, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

The "references" you say are publication of the Ahmadi religion that is not supported by history. In fact, history negates it. Mr. Sindhi was a Deobandi Muslim which is the strictest form of Sunni Islam in South Asia. Deobandies are known for their strong stance against the British and their military recruiter Mirza Ghulam Ahmed of Qadian. At best, the theory of Mr. Sindhi's Ahmadi connection is a joke, if not a stupid attempt to distort history. Hassanfarooqi 18:03, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

For your information, Nadwatul Ulema Deoband, The foundation stone was laid by Sir. John Briscott Hewitt, Lt. Governor of India on 28 Nov 1906. (Al-Nadwa, Lucknow,Vol 5, No. 11, Dec 1908, Page 2.

Also, let see what Deoband leaders say about the British;

for instance, stated in Arwah e Salasah, pp. 445/446. Marginal Note. Revised by Maulvi Ashra Ali Thanvi published with notes and commentary by the Deobandi leader Maulvi Ashraf Ali Thanvi:

'Many a divine of India were against the Mutiny. They did not accept the rebellion as Jihad and Meer Mehboob Ali Sahib was one of those divines who was opposed to the revolt. He dissuaded the Muslims from participating in the disturbances.'

Maulvi Ashiq Ali of Deoband states in relation to Maulvi Rashid Ahmad Gongohi of the Nidawatul Ulama: (Ali, Maulvi Ashiq. Tadhkirah al Rasheed, pp. 74/75)

'During these days (of Mutiny), he had to fight the gangs of miscreants who roamed the country. He used to carry a sword with him to protect himself and he would attack like a lion amidst a barrage of bullets. Once, while in the company of Maulana Qasim al Uloom, Hadhrat Haji Sahib [Haji lmadullah Makki] and Hafiz Zaamin, the Maulana and his companions were confronted by a gang of Hindu rebels. However, this small group of patriots were not prepared to either run or surrender to the mutinying traitors of their Movement

'They stood before the rebels like a rock and prepared themselves to sacrifice their lives for their Government. The courage shown by these people under such heavy odds was incredible. The situation could have easily caused fright in the hearts of the bravest of men. But, this small band of ascetics stood their ground and fought against the rebels. They were fired upon by the enemy and Hadhrat Hafiz Sahib was hit by a bullet. He died as a result of the wound sustained by him

Also, in Qaisar a' Tawreekh, vol.2, p.351

'After the suppression of the Indian mutiny, the Sultan ul Ulama, Syed Muhammad Ahmad, a leading divine of Lucknow was also among those generously rewarded by the British. He was granted a pension of Rs. 800 per month and this pension was subject to inheritance by his succeeding generations

Maulana Nanotawi was a good leader who agreed with Ahmadiyya interpretation of Khatme Nabuwwat.

He writes:

“Charged with the duty of delivering Divine Commandments to the people, prophets may be likened to governors. They are God’s vicegerents on earth. They therefore hold a position of authority. The office of a governor or minister is considered the highest in a chain of subordinate officers. A governor or a minister has the authority to set aside the orders or directives of his subordinates. Their orders, on the other hand, cannot be set aside by the subordinate officers. The final authority rests with the governor. Similarly, the one in whom prophethood found its perfection was declared The Seal of The Prophets - ‘Khatamun-Nabbiyeen’, as there is no rank higher than his. (Mobahesa Shahjahanpur pg. 24- 25).

He also writesin Tahzeer Alnas page3:

“The general public may conceive that ‘Khatamun Nabbiyeen’ means that the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) was the last of the prophets but people of knowledge and understanding know it very well that being the first or last does not necessarily connote excellence. The words “Wala Kin Rasool Lallahe Wa Khatamun Nabbiyeen” are designed to convey the Holy Prophet’s (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) exalted and unequalled status and this alone is the correct interpretation. Khatamiyyat is not in any way rejected or denied if a prophet appears after the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him). But if Khatamiyyat is only taken to mean the last prophet, this would be a disparaging interpretation. Such an interpretation would not be acceptable to followers of Islam.”

The refrences I provided are by Prof. M. Sarwar, A sunni Scholar. Next time you want to delete my contribution, give me a valid reason.You can for example try to find out what Maulana believed regarding life/death of Jesus (as). Why and how was he excluded by his contemporary Deoband scholars etc? Also, I have verified this information from different sources other than ahmadiyya books. This is a fact as far as I am concerned. If you have a problem with Ahmadiyya muslims, you can express it with justifiable responses. --Khokhar976 18:37, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Again, the "Sunni References" you provide are are not published in any Muslim press, just the press in Qadian. Mr. Sindhi was a die hard Wahhabi and I have no sympathies for Wahhabies. However to refer to a die hard anti British Wahhabi as a pro English Qadiani is a blatant lie that even an anti-Wahhabi like me fail to digest. Hassanfarooqi 13:54, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Prof. Sarwar's books are published by a non-ahmadi press in Lahore (and not in Qadian). I have given full details in the reference section. The section you added at the end had a lot of your opinion on ahmadiyya movement. I think you can try to find out more about Maulana and if he said anything about the Ahmadis which you think can support your case. There have been many anti-british leaders in India who respected the Ahmadiyya scholars. Maulana Azad, Iqbal, Siddique Salik etc. Khokhar976 15:45, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

All the names of anti-British that you have mentioned, are not recorded in any credible book to praise a pro-British. The very idea is stupid. Why don't you quote a Jew praising Adolf Hitler? you have the same chances are proving a freedom fighter praising someone whom he saw as a British tout. Hassanfarooqi 17:28, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

All the books I have mentioned are authentic Deobandi books, endorsed and published by official deoband sources. Look for them and then let me know if I am wrong.Khokhar976 08:49, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

You are a big fat liar like Mirza Ghulam. There is no Deobandi book that would say Mohammed was not the last prophet. The biggest anti-qadiani organization Majlis Tahaffuz Khatme Nabuwwat is lead by Deobandies who declared Qadianese of the basis of questioning the finalhood. The very idea of anti British priasing British touts is stupid stupid stupid. SunniPride 03:46, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

What about Allama Iqbal who said "if anyone wants to see the pure practice of Islam, they should go and see it in Qadian". Majlis Tahaffuze Khatme Nabuwwat is led by bigots. Hadhrat Khalifatul Masih II was invited to the Darul Uloom in 1912 where he was received with great honour by the son of Maulana Qasim Nanutuwi (Hafiz Muhammad Ahmad), and Maulana Sindhi. Religious differences should be tolerated. And Maulana Sindhi certainly did tolerate the differences and appreciated the good qualities. When Maulana wanted to return to India in 1927, sir Mount Moris (Governor of Punjab) asked Khalifatul Maseeh II (ra) about him. And Khalifatul Maseeh II (ra) gave a good character reference for him as result of which Maulana was allowed to come back.He had respect for not only Maulana Noor Deen, but he also respected the son of Promised Messiah (as) so much so that he did not debate with him on a matter by saying "I can not debate with him, He is the son of Mirza Sahib. He also said once that I consider Mirza sahib to be a great Sufi and Divine, but I do not agree with Ahmadiyya beliefs regarding him. Khokhar976 11:34, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

I have read little about Mulana Ubaidullah Sindhi but non of those book mentioned that he was Qadyani,so i am revearting your edit(Khokhar976) and if you vandlize this page again i will reveart it.So better come with some thing good,i know few sites where list of famous Qadyani is mentioned and i have not seen Mulana Ubaidullah Sindhi name on it. Khalidkhoso 20:49, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Lets keep reverting then. Unless you can prove the reference I have provided (Prof. Sarwar) is either a fabrication or from an Ahmadiyya book, I can not accept your argument. Just work on it for a while and if I am wrong, please prove it.Khokhar976 08:57, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Whole world, except maybe Qadian, knows that Maulana was not Qadiani. So if you claim so, then the burden of proof is on you. We dont have to prove he was not. However you can see from his work on Taqwitul Imam, a book written by Ibn Abdul Wahhab, that he was a die hard Wahhabi Sunni Muslim and could not have said one single word of praise about anyone he would consider a false prophet. You have to quote a genuine history book, not published by your community, to prove he belonged to your community. Hassanfarooqi

i think you are right Hassanfarooqi,i will revert this artilce if it needs favour.

124.29.254.13 18:23, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Here is another quote from a letter the Maulana Sindhi wrote to his friend Iqbal Shaidaee. The letter is dated 2 Oct, 1924, "You don't know how I went in the presence of Maulana Noor ud Deen Marhoom. You can ask Maulana Muhammad Ali and Maulana Sadrud Deen about what Maulana Marhoom thought about me. I consider his (Maulana Noor Deen's) prayers a source of redemption for me. Due to this, my Deobandi Kashmiri friends did not stop from apostacizing me. But my love for this party has not decreased due to this."

Also, in his Tafseer ul Quran, Maulana Sindhi writes "Bal Rafahullah" this phrase has not been used in Quran only once, but there are many usages and examples of this phrase (elsewhere), like when in congregations a high status is attained, Quran categorizes it as Rafa (raising up). Our belief is that God raised the status of Messiah. Now we can not know the teachings of Moses and Abraham (as) until we follow son of Mary (as). So, we are not required to believe in bodily ascent of Jesus according to Quran."Khokhar976 14:11, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Ubaidullah sindhi

History 43.247.121.134 (talk) 11:16, 7 October 2022 (UTC)