Talk:USS Langley (CV-1)/Archive 1

Archive 1

Naming

"The naming of Langley was one of many shots in a long feud between Orville Wright and the United States Government." This needs a bit of elaboration if possible... who named her and why? ++Lar: t/c 02:24, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

The Smithsonian, specifically, funded Samuel Pierpoint Langley's experiments (using money taken from the War Department) with the Aerodrome, a tandem-wing aircraft he attempted to launch from a catapult aboard a houseboat on the Potomac River. Both launches failed, the second just weeks before the Wrights succeeded with powered flight at Kitty Hawk. The Smithsonian was embarrassed at the failure of the Aerodrome. The Wrights were very aggressive in protecting their patents, and Glen Curtiss, then a motorcycle racer, had little trouble convincing the Smithsonian to assist him as he tried to prove the Aerodrome was a viable heavier-than-air powered aircraft that PRECEDED the Wright Flyer, which would negate the Wrights' patents.

Curtiss managed to make the Aerodrome fly for a few seconds, after significant redesign. The Smithsonian immediately restored it to the original design, which was NOT able to fly, and enshrined it as the "First powered heavier-than-air aircraft", even though the challenge to the Wright patents failed. The court action, however, did narrow the breadth of the Wright patents, and allow others, including Curtiss, to design and build aircraft without infringing on the newly-narrowed patents.

The Smithsonian held onto their deception until the mid 1950's, when they finally apologized to Orville Wright, and hauled the Aerodrome down, giving the Wright Flyer the place of honor (The Aerodrome is, however, still displayed). Since the War Department had actually funded the Smithsonian project, they had a vested interest in promoting Curtiss's efforts to overturn the Wright patents. Naming their carrier after Langley was their way of bolstering the argument that he, not the Wrights, had the first successful airplane. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.32.220.126 (talk) 13:27, 11 October 2011 (UTC)

The ship was named the Langley because Langley's "Aerodrome" was launched from a house boat and thus had a connection with the water. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.173.13 (talk) 10:36, 25 February 2017 (UTC)

Photos

The last photo on the page carries the caption: Near miss of a Japanese bomb on 27 February 1942

Based on the book Pawns of War: The Loss of the USS Langley and the USS Pecos (Dwight Messimer (1983), United States Naval Institute), this photo depicts a torpedo fired by the USS Whipple to sink the USS Langley following the attack by the Japanese. I propose that this caption be changed. This photo and description is found between pages 110 and 111 in Pawns of War. Proposalbee (talk) 13:22, 6 July 2008 (UTC)Proposalbee

References/Citation

There is no citation for any of the content under the heading "Seaplane Tender." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.242.59.208 (talk) 00:42, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

That section and most of the article is taken from CV-1 Langley in Dictionary of American Naval Fighting Ships, DANFS, U.S. Dept. of Navy. This is US Govt Public Domain info. Use of DANFS for Wikipedia entries on US ships is pretty much SOP. Naaman Brown (talk) 00:48, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

Jupiter (AC-3) was laid down 18 October 1911 by Mare Island Navy Yard, Vallejo, Calif.; launched 24 August 1912; sponsored by Mrs. Thomas F. Ruhm; and commissioned 7 April 1913, Comdr. Joseph M. Reeves in command.

After successfully passing her trials, Jupiter, the first electrically propelled ship of the U.S. Navy, embarked a Marine detachment at San Francisco and reported to the Pacific Fleet at Mazatlan, Mexico, 27 April 1914, bolstering U.S. naval strength on the Mexican Pacific coast during the tense days of the Vera Cruz crisis. She remained on the Pacific coast until she departed for Philadelphia, 10 October. En route the collier steamed through the Panama Canal on Columbus Day—the first vessel to transit it from west to east.

Prior to America’s entry into World War I, she cruised the Atlantic and Gulf of Mexico attached to the Atlantic Fleet Auxiliary Division. The ship arrived Norfolk 6 April 1917, and, assigned to NOTS, interrupted her coaling operations by two cargo voyages to France in June 1917 and November 1918. She was back in Norfolk 23 January 1919 whence she sailed for Brest, France, 8 March for coaling duty in European waters to expedite the return of victorious veterans to the United States. Upon reaching Norfolk 17 August, the ship was transferred to the west coast. Her conversion to an aircraft carrier was authorized 11 July 1919, and she sailed to Hampton Roads, Va., 12 December where she decommissioned 24 March 1920.

Jupiter was converted into the first U.S. aircraft carcrier at the Navy Yard, Norfolk, Va., for the purpose of conducting experiments in the new idea of seaborne aviation, a field of unlimited possibilities. Her name was changed to Langley 21 April 1920; she was reclassified CV-1 and recommissioned 20 March 1922, Comdr. Kenneth Whiting in command. Her statistics as an aircraft carrier are: CV-1: dp. 11,500; l. 542'; b. 65'; ew. 65'; dr. 18'11"; s. 15 k.; cpl. 468; a. 4 5", ac. 55 (max.) cl. Langley.

As the first Navy carrier, Langley was the scene of numerous momentous events. On 17 October 1922 Lt. Virgil C. Griffin piloted the first plane, a VE-7-SF, launched from her decks. Though this was not the first time an airplane had taken off from a ship, and though Langley was not the first ship with an installed flight deck, this one launching was of monumental importance to the modern U.S. Navy. The era of the aircraft carrier was born introducing into the Navy what was to become the vanguard of its forces in the future. With Langley underway 9 days later, Lt. Comdr. G. DeC. Chevalier made the first landing in an Aeromarine. On 18 November Commander Whiting, at the controls of a PT, was the first aviator to be catapulted from a carrier’s deck.

By 15 January 1923 Langley had began flight operations and tests in the Caribbean for carrier landings. In June she steamed to Washington, D.C., to give a demonstration at a flying exhibition before civil and military dignitaries. She arrived Norfolk 13 June and commenced training along the Atlantic coast and Caribbean which carried her through the end of the year. In 1924 Langley participated in more maneuvers and exhibitions, and spent the summer at Norfolk for repairs and alterations. She departed for the west coast late in the year and arrived San Diego 29 November to join the Pacific Battle Fleet. For the next 12 years she operated off the California coast and Hawaii engaged in training fleet units, experimentation, pilot training, and tactical fleet problems. On 25 October 1936 she put into Mare Island Navy Yard, Calif., for overhaul and conversion to a seaplane tender. Though her career as a carrier had ended, her well-trained pilots proved invaluable to the next two carriers, Lexington (CV‑2) and Saratoga (CV‑3).

Langley completed conversion 26 February 1937 and was reclassified AV‑3 on 21 April. She was assigned to Aircraft Scouting Force and commenced her tending operations out of Seattle, Sitka, Pearl Harbor, and San Diego. She departed for a brief deployment with the Atlantic Fleet from 1 February to 10 July 1939, and then steamed to assume her duties with the Pacific fleet at Manila arriving 24 September.

At the outbreak of World War II, Langley was anchored off Cavite, Philippine Islands. She departed 8 December and proceeded to Balikpapan, Borneo, and Darwin, Australia, where she arrived 1 January 1942. Until 11 January Langley assisted the RAAF in running antisubmarine patrols out of Darwin. She was then assigned to American‑British‑Dutch‑Australian forces assembling in Indonesia to challenge the Japanese thrust in that direction. She departed Freemantle, Australia, 22 February in convoy, and left the convoy 5 days later to deliver 32 P‑40’s to Tjilatjap, Java.

Early in the morning 27 February, Langley rendezvoused with her antisubmarine screen, destroyers Whipple (DD‑217) and Edsall (DD‑219). At 1140 nine twin-engine enemy bombers attacked her. The first and second Japanese strikes were unsuccessful; but during the third Langley took five hits. Aircraft topside burst into flames, steering was impaired, and the ship took a 10° list to port. Unable to negotiate the narrow mouth of Tjilatjap Harbor, Langley went dead in the water as inrushing water flooded her main motors. At 1332 the order to abandon ship was passed. The escorting destroyers fired nine 4‑inch shells and two torpedoes into the old tender to insure her sinking. She went down about 75 miles south of Tjilatjap with a loss of 16.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Naaman Brown (talk • contribs) 00:49, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

factoids, trivial or worth including?

The top speed of USS Langley was 15 knots, 6 to 7 knots slower than the battle fleet, limiting her usefulness to that of a training vessel for aircraft operations; in fact, as an experimental vessel, Langley's tonnage did not count toward the USN's aircraft carrier tonnage under the naval arms limitation treaty. Naaman Brown (talk) 01:52, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

I believe Langley's speed is already included in the article. Remaining information has varying degrees of subjectivity making in-line reference citations important. The speed of a battle fleet varied with the speed of the slowest included battleship, and speeds of individual ships vary over time with loading, water temperature, condition of propulsion and auxiliary machinery, sea state, and extent of fouling growths on the underwater hull. Evolution of the aircraft carrier role for the offensive fast carrier strike force resulted from availability of large, fast battle cruiser hulls for conversion. Langley remained fully capable of other, equally valuable roles including aircraft transport, pilot training, convoy anti-submarine patrols, and air cover for amphibious operations. United States construction of more than 100 escort carriers verifies the usefulness of ships with Langley's size and speed. Reasons for non-contribution to aircraft-carrier tonnage limitations should be explained. Was a status change effected by flight deck modifications for conversion to an aircraft transport?Thewellman (talk) 17:47, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

A little 2006 DVD documentary "US Navy Carriers" (part of the Weapons of War series) points out that the 14 knots of the USS Langley CV-1 was 7 knots slower than the 21 knot top speed of the standard USN battleships thus Langley could not operate with the battlefleet. The DVD doc describes Langley as "a useful learning tool" to develop the technology used in the Lexington class. Langley was used to develop catapults and arrestor gear technology and in training carrier pilots.

The Wikipedia Washington Naval Treaty article states "....as an experimental vessel, Langley did not count against the tonnage restrictions...." of 135,000 tons for USN aircraft carriers.

USN carrier    official tonnage
CV2 Lexington  33,000 tons
CV3 Saratoga   33,000 tons
CV4 Ranger     14,500 tons
CV5 Yorktown   19,800 tons
CV6 Enterprise 19,800 tons
CV7 Wasp       14,700 tons 
Total         134,800 tons

The impression I am given (from limited sources obviously) is that Langley was considered more an experimental or auxiliary vessel than a first line fighting ship. I would like to see more official sources before adding anything to the article though. Naaman Brown (talk) 01:01, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

I believe there is relatively widespread misunderstanding on Langley treaty exemption status. Article VIII of the Washington Naval Treaty provided an exemption for experimental aircraft carriers in existence or building on 12 November 1921. That exemption was for replacement in less than seventeen years, rather than exclusion from tonnage limitations imposed by article VII.(see: http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Washington_Naval_Treaty,_1922) Langley was replaced by Wasp for tonnage computations during 1936 conversion to a seaplane tender when the flight deck was truncated in accordance with treaty chapter II, part 2.III.(b)(8) to prevent launch and landing as defined at treaty chapter II, part 4.Thewellman (talk) 20:46, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Cause of sinking

The intro says dive bombers, yet the actual sinking section says Langley was sunk by G4M level bombers. 74.59.150.32 (talk) 05:38, 26 February 2016 (UTC)

Turbo electric

The turbo electric page, says "The battleship USS New Mexico, launched in 1917, was the World's first turbo-electric battleship." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.151.49.175 (talk) 19:26, 20 March 2018 (UTC)