Talk:UFO sightings in South Africa

No sources for some of the claims

At 4:00 am on 28 August 1996 a glowing disc was sighted by sergeant Becker near the Adriaan Vlok police station, Erasmuskloof, Pretoria. The pulsating light contained a red triangle and emitted bright green tentacles, while a radar operator at Johannesburg International confirmed its presence. A chase ensued involving some 200 policemen and a police helicopter. The helicopter chase was given up at 10,000 ft near Bronkhorstspruit, when the object made a vertical ascent.

I cannot find any sources or references to backup any of these claims. Specifically: 1). Sergeant Becker, 2). Johannesburg International airport confirming, 3). 200 policemen and helicopters. I ask that someone either cite proper sources or remove this entire paragraph. Gtwy (talk) 23:18, 28 December 2017 (UTC)

Added some references to this event, and corrected some mistakes stemming from inaccurate reporting. It appears to have been sergeant Nico Stander (not Becker) and independent witness Johan(n) Becker. While some sources said it was detected at Johannesburg International Airport (perhaps it was), radar clutter was certainly detected at AFB Waterkloof, and relayed to the chopper pilot. The initial newspaper archive is not online anymore. JMK (talk) 12:28, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

James van Greunen paragraph

A paragraph claiming that James van Greunen's name was cleared, was removed as it lacked references. It would appear from the sources consulted, that there is little doubt that van Greunen had financial interests in the case or cases which he promoted, besides similar financial interests in his earlier UFO related ventures. If references are provided it may be a different matter. JMK (talk) 22:23, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Revert 6-2010

A number of users have recently made unreferenced or poorly referenced additions to the article, to the effect that the article deservedly received a multiple issues tag. Cleanup was impossible in my opinion, and consequently a number of edits were reverted.

A main issue once again is the Van Greunen claims. The extensive additions didn't add value to the referenced summary of the claimed events already given. If ample or any references to argue the veracity of these claims actually exist, it would only be necessary to change or remove the "Probable hoaxes" header.

Easiest I suppose, if any flying disc was "embedded inside crater" of 150m x 150m x 12m, please post some evidence of the crater, with some references please. Further bear in mind please, that in both Van Greunen cases there are no (zero) first hand witnesses, nor any photo evidence. JMK (talk) 19:11, 1 July 2010 (UTC)

1992 Crash

An Art Bell interview with a supposed Brigadier General from south africa indicated that the Kalahari crash was in 1992, with two beings inside. he allegedly ordered it shot down and witnessed the craft and beings himself. He sounded quite credible and sincere. Is the 1989 thing disinfo or are there multiple crashes? should the 1992 not be mentioned? 85.83.19.103 (talk) 06:08, 10 January 2013 (UTC) Dan Frederiksen

Thanks for pointing this out, Dan. I give a summary of the interview below, showing that this claim does not involve the Kalahari or Lesotho, but has similarities to those accounts. The supposed event would have occurred in 1982, preceding the claimed events in 1989 and 1995. JMK (talk) 14:01, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

"South African General Shoots Down UFO", Art Bell

The interview of a decade ago was uploaded to youtube 3 years ago: Pt 1/4, Pt 2/4, Pt 3/4, Pt 4/4
Part 1: The source, first contact

1. "Brigadier general" in RSA army, "Chris" (South African accent), a friend of "Bruce" (American accent)
2. Incident would refer to a "small ship" in back of Area 51 hangar with small dent, of which Bob Lazar, may (or may not) have spoken about
3. "Chris" is in fear of his life, as of 2-2004 (a decade after the change of government in South Africa), due to his former anti-insurgent activities. The UFO event took place in November 1982 (not 1992 as shown on the videos, as "Chris" relates the year twice, and the month once)
4. He was a marine engineer when he was drafted into the army for national service
5. He only did three months of national service, rather than the normal two years, due to the above job keeping him at sea
6. He headed a special operations unit and special anti-terrorism unit in the SA army (not navy)
7. He was the officer on duty or base commander on duty on the night when the incident happened, as other officers were attending a function
8. He was not involved with the air force in general, but was stationed at the Air Force Base just outside Pretoria (would be Swartkops or Waterkloof AFB)
9. An important secret research facility was located inside the well-guarded AFB
10. The radar picked up "two bogeys coming in" from Mozambique/Angola. He was called to the AFB tower when the suspected "MiGs" were crossing the RSA/(Mozambique?) border
11. These two MiGs could have been a threat to soldiers on the ground on the border
12. He asked the gunnery sergeant (called adjudant/adjutant in South Africa), but the navy was occupied with a Russian submarine doing maneuvers out at sea, and RSA air craft were trying to harrass it until it left RSA territorial waters. So the navy aircraft could not investigate. His resources were about 2,000 miles away.
13. So he enquired about available F1 Mirages, the only RSA craft capable of carrying a nuclear weapon. He admits an RSA nuclear test in the desert, which was revealed to the world by a "weather channel", which detected the anomaly.
14. All the F1's were out elsewhere, except one at the base's research facility that was used for testing experimental weaponry. This particular F1 was sent on a reconnaissance flight.
15. The pilot departed (at night) and reported "one bogey". Another radar base (would be Louis Trichardt/Hoedspruit) that can observe 1,500 miles into "enemy" territory, replied that one of the two objects broke off and departed in another direction
16. F1 Mirage was guided by radar to the location of the unknown craft, on a pitch dark night.
17. Pilot reported that it was not a MiG, or civilian aircraft, and that it did not carry any apparent weapons.

Part 2: The crash

1. Pilot could not give an opinion on the possible hostility of the craft. Decided not to take chances and to consider it a risk.
2. Sergeant answered that the F1 does not have any arms to fire at the unknown craft, and was given the order to scare the craft out of the (RSA) territory.
3. Pilot replied that he had a short-range weapon that he could use (possibly as a scare only). Pilot mentioned that he had to dive from higher altitude towards unknown craft.
4. "Chris" authorized the attack as a safety precaution, using the laser beam, about which "Chris" was uninformed at the time. The research on this weapon was also funded by another unidentified country, and only a year later (1983) did "Chris" learn more about this weapon.
5. "Chris" claims that the RSA is (as of 2004) the third largest weapons manufacturer in the world
6. Pilot first described the craft as round, without wings, travelling at 700 miles per hour (1,100 km/h) in level flight. Then identified it as a disk-shaped craft.
7. Communications were in Afrikaans. "Chris" would have asked: "Who is experimenting with disks out here," before giving the order to bring it down. Permission was given to fire the airborne laser from the F1-Mirage, as the unknown craft was deemed a risk to forces on the ground. Craft was still deemed to be man-made at this point, possibly carrying Russian pilots.
8. Previous year (1981), Russian pilots were shot down (in Angola?) causing embarrassment to, and pressure on the South African government.
9. It was hit hard, it spun to right, then spun to left. The F1-mirage had to withdraw, due to heavy equipment, but a second Mirage that was patrolling the Skeleton coast, arrived to take over
10. Craft bounced around in the air like a ball, out of control. When it stopped bouncing, it slowly went down to the ground, before impacting
11. A helicopter was dispatched with 4 recces (cf. green berets) to crash site, 1,200 miles (1,900 km) away, and there was concern about possible Russian POW's.
12. The helicopter experienced mechanical problems two miles from the site, and had to land. These problems were later deemed related to the crash, but was at the time was seen as a normal malfunction. The Recces complained for months after the incident that they got ill and started vomiting when approaching the craft.
13. 5 hours elapsed after the crash, before they could approach the craft. Object was glowing in rainbow colours, blue, orange, green, for 5 hours, and still so when "Chris" arrived. Colours were limited to body of craft, which was 12 feet (3.7 m) in diameter.
14. Commander-in-chief of forces sent him, because they did not know what they shot down, and did not want trouble. "Chris" was dispatched with his anti-terrorist team in a helicopter. He was not trained for this eventuality, and the term UFO did not exist to him.
15. When the colours went out, craft was seen to have a big dent, size of a basketball, deemed to be caused by the laser weapon. Even then it hurt their hands, when they touched it, causing a numbing sensation or cramps.
16. Pretty near to Kruger National Park, on RSA/(Mozambique?) border. Very restricted and patrolled area, by foot, lives were lost here on patrols

Part 3: The recovery

1. A military Mercedes Benz (gass/petrol driven) truck was already on site, but the object was heavy, and was going through a cooling process.
2. One of the lieutenants turned around and said: "General, please take a look, that hatch is open."
3. Hoped for nothing hostile to emerge, as they were only armed with R1 and R4 rifles, and a few mortars. Site very close to border. Foot patrols here carried 100 lb backpacks and patrolled 600 miles in 30 days. Unit of 12-24 persons were with him.
4. At daybreak a recce decided to open the hatch, but was ordered by "Chris" to get away from it. The recce exclaimed: "Chee wiz, why do they have a child in here?" The being inside was the size of a 10 year old child, small in body structure. The recce eventually obeyed, and remarked: "They must have been burned because they are grey as hell," as he thought the bodies were charred in a fire. Was decided to clean up the mess and depart to base.
5. While the craft was glowing, the petrol truck came up to secure its perimeter. It however cut out, and had trouble moving anywhere. They had to call the engineers in who had an engineering truck with a crane and boom. This diesel truck was unaffected, and was consequently used for transportation. They also had power to lift the craft unto the back of the truck. The beings were left inside as he felt it was not the right place to investigate them.
6. "Chris" made a phone call to the general, who asked if any other pieces of the craft were lying around, but "Chris" replied that it was intact, only with a big dent in it. At this point he still considered it to be a foreign test aircraft.
7. Engineers placed it on diesel truck and transported it through Kruger National Park, to Pretoria, a distance of 800 miles (1,300 km), to the secret base in the middle of Pretoria. Then it was moved to a base some 400 miles (640 km) from Cape Town called Ysterplaat (likely another base, as Air Force Base Ysterplaat is in Cape Town), where it was kept for three days.
8. Directly afterwards "Chris" was in Mpumalanga (in 1982 a township near Durban, not a province) looking for a terrorist, but was called back to Pretoria. He was given an assignment with respect to the craft, much against his will, as his service time was almost over, and wanted to return to his family and civil duties as engineer (in another country). Commander said, "it is not ours, and we must return it to where it came from", "you found it, the plane is waiting for you", "I want nothing to do with it". It was transported in a "Hercules C31/C130" to the United States. "Chris"'s group was ordered by the general to serve as extra security on the flight.
9. The two body bags were loaded separately. "Chris" suspected they were transporting bombs, so ordered the body bags to be opened, in which were found two "grey people, with very long fingers, and eyes that were bigger than horse eyes". Neither he, nor the adjutant knew what these were.

Part 4: Transportation to United States

1. Craft and two beings were flown in a Hercules C-130 to the United States. The pilots were American. They were informed that a British pilot would meet them at Ilha do Sal, Cape Verde, as pilots of US origin had a conflict of interest and could not do flight into US.
2. Arrived on time at Andrews AFB, Washington DC. Several mechanical troubles during the flight, with brand new C-130, apparently owned by US.
3. Only during the flight did he start to realise that they had an alien craft, and that he had shot down an alien object. At sea he had time to consider the situation.
4. One alien being woke up during the flight. One of his patrol men hit the being with his rifle butt, knocking it out. The serviceman broke his (own) fingers in the process. Not sure if the being survived. All started panicking, and the pilot was told not to waste time. Ilha do Sal to Washington flight was a tense situation. One serviceman, a well-read student doctor, declared that he was convinced of the alien origin of the artifacts.
5. Landed very early morning, unceremoniously, after long flight. One American dressed as a Colonel came on-board, started upsetting the crew by giving them orders. "Chris" identified himself as a brigadier general and asked respect, or they would dump the artifact in the ocean. Next moment guns were pointed at him.
6. Reason for talking: Bob Lazar made drawing of a craft, which "Chris" saw on TV. "Chris" associates the craft with a dent that was in the Area 51 hangar, with the one he shot down. "Chris" considers the (Area 51) situation to be unfair, especially when they deny that Bob Lazar worked there. He claims to be able to identify one craft that Bob described, as the one that he knows of.
7. Secondly "Chris" knows about people who got blisters on their skins at Area 51, and that the existence of the base was subsequently denied. Four South Africans died in a similar way.
8. "Chris" fears for his life, specifically the post-apartheid RSA government. The people he fought during the war are in power now. He won't sleep in bed with the enemy. "Chris" is always on the move, and now lives in the USA.
9. The artifacts were shipped from the Hercules, directly to a jet cargo/transport aircraft, that took off before they did. They were told to stay on the ground for 40 minutes, before departing.

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UFO activity sighted

at 5:45 this morning I saw a formation of more than 30 flying objects in a perfect line in the atmosphere in South Africa, with equal distances between them. 41.121.87.143 (talk) 06:42, 5 July 2023 (UTC)