Talk:UEFA Euro 2012 statistics

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Text and/or other creative content from this version of UEFA Euro 2012 disciplinary record was copied or moved into UEFA Euro 2012 statistics#Discipline with this edit on 18:04, 17 July 2012‎. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

Clean Sheets

Does the absence of goals conceded by the Polish goalkeeper Przemysław Tytoń count as a clean sheet because he was a substitute? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lolita3000 (talk • contribs) 21:08, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As describe in wiki page, a Clean Sheet should be no goals for the entire match. So substitute should not be counted. But the wiki definition for clean sheet is so short, it may not be completely correct. Maybe definition on FIFA or UEFA homepage will be more convincing. Yet I haven't find it on the two homepages. While another clean sheet by Iker Casillas may solve the issue at least for this page.:) 222.67.152.235 (talk) 07:32, 23 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Merge proposal of UEFA Euro 2012 disciplinary record to UEFA Euro 2012 statistics

Moved: was at Talk:UEFA Euro 2012 disciplinary record

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was a merge from UEFA Euro 2012 disciplinary record into UEFA Euro 2012 statistics#Discipline

Discipline is a specific statistic and therefore should not be considered its own topic. The article can be easily integrated as just another section in UEFA Euro 2012 statistics. Therefore, I propose a merge between the two articles. Please state whether you support or oppose this, and why. Thanks. Dar5995 (talk) 04:08, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose Discipline is not merey statistical: it incorporates competition specific rules,and non-playing sanctions. Having proposed that something be merged into this, it would be inconsistent for me to support this proposal. Kevin McE (talk) 20:32, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

In pieces, almost all of the information in this article exists in related articles. The information should be incorporated into the other articles (discipline section of the main article or statistics article) because it is redundant. Dar5995 (talk) 21:06, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that info can be rationalised: I do not agree that that is best done by bloating the main article (I acknowledge that this particular move proposal does not do that: many of the parallel ones do.) Kevin McE (talk) 07:33, 23 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

While it would bloat the main UEFA Euro 2012 article, the UEFA Euro 2012 statistics article is by its nature supposed to be long and exhaustive since it deals with raw statistics. The UEFA Euro 2012 statistics#Cards section should contain all of the relevant statistical information from UEFA Euro 2012 disciplinary record, and UEFA Euro 2012#Discipline should contain all of the relevant overview information from UEFA Euro 2012 disciplinary record. This whole matter revolves around the information's placement, and I think right now it is not in a good place. Dar5995 (talk) 21:19, 23 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support The disciplinary record is a part of the statistic material, as can be seen in UEFA Euro 2012 where it is in the same section. I think a article with both articles info would be most helpfull. And the UEFA Euro 2012 disciplinary record article really isnt so big it can have those statistical info in it too Jack Bornholm (talk) 08:38, 23 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support The disciplinary article is not too long and can and shoule be merged into the statistics article. Reywas92^Talk 20:03, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

A sortable table would have much of the informations in the article in one single easy to find table, it is a bit redudante to have a section for each when sortable tables are avaible. Jack Bornholm (talk) 07:39, 29 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support Agree with Jack Bornholm. The disciplinary record is statistical material. Armbrust, B.Ed. ^{WrestleMania XXVIII} _{The Undertaker 20–0} 10:51, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

"Final positions" violates original research policy

On this page, there is a section that lists the hypothetical final positions of the teams. Since (as it even states in the article itself) UEFA does not have a finals positions table, and this table only uses analogous FIFA ranking methods, the table should be removed because it is therefore original research. Whoever added this section figured it out themselves, and this contradicts the stated no original research policy of Wikipedia. I would remove it, but since that would be a substantial edit, I wanted to reach a consensus first before doing anything. Dar5995 (talk) 04:17, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Please carefully check the third note under the Final Position table for explantion. Not only the table exists in previous Euro stats pages, but also is used in all the national football team records. You can just click any country name in the table, and find UEFA European Championship record in all those pages, the detailed positions are always there since the very beginning. 222.67.152.235 (talk) 06:23, 23 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe they should go there too. Made up ranking. Why are there two thirds, but no four 5th placed teams? -Koppapa (talk) 07:03, 23 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Check the first note under the table, UEFA give bronze medals to both losing semifinalists, so there are two thirds. 222.67.152.235 (talk) 07:09, 23 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Does UEFA explicitly state there are two thirds? The same way positions 5th-16th are determined, we might say that UEFA give bronze medals to the third and to the fourth. There is a third place playoff in the World Cups, and yet FIFA awards bronze medals to both losing semi-finalists. --Theurgist (talk) 09:33, 23 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

FIFA never awards bronze medals to 4th place team. 2006 bronze medals were awarded only to Germany but not Portugal, 2010 bronze medals were awarded again only to Germany but not Uruguay. FIFA World Cup wiki page also explains that. In 2002, some 'fourth-place' medals (still not bronze medals) were awarded to 4th place and co-host South Korea. 222.67.6.25 (talk) 11:54, 23 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

But Bulgaria surely did get bronze medals after finishing fourth in 1994. See the awarding ceremony here, see the players wearing the medals here (halfway through the video). --Theurgist (talk) 01:06, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You are totally right, my mistake. FIFA did once presented bronze to both losing semi-finalists. While since 2002( or 1998), bronze medals only go to 3rd place team. It's also true in the upcoming world cup 2014,[1], [2] Regulations FWC Brazil 2014, Article 47.8. 222.67.161.135 (talk) 02:03, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Re: the discussion about bronze medals in the Euros: the official Euro 2012 regulations (see article 3.08) state that the winners of the final get 40 gold medals, the losers of the final get 40 silver medals and the losers of each semi-final get 40 bronze medals each. There is nothing in the regulations about the ranking of teams, only that the two losing finalists get medals of the same colour, indicating equality. – Pee Jay 12:34, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

After reading this comic(no offense here, the author of the comic himself is a wiki administrator), discussion about whether the table is "original research" or not is pointless. As everyone can eidt a page, the one with the most leisure time always has the final say. Since you enjoyed deleting so much.... why not go to all the national football team pages and delete all the position columns there? There must be 20+ pages crying for your edition. Must be a great fun for you. England is here. Enjoy :) Ftj1357 (talk) 19:02, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You can sling insults all you want but nothing will change the fact that UEFA does not rank the teams thus, and to do so would be a perfect example of original research (i.e. the synthesis of new ideas). Anyway, the discussion has moved on now. – Pee Jay 22:55, 27 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Two players as quickest goalscorer.

Why is there two different people listed under fastest goal in a match? And why is there a note for it saying they are the only two players playing for Vfl Wolfsburg? Can we delete the 2 min 37 second goal and the note? Tam1hibs (talk) 22:07, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

As in official record, both goals are considered as 3 min, no seconds involved. To reconcile the official record and reality, both the official number and real times are provided. As to the note, I think it may belongs to Trivia section, just to emphasize the coincidence that the two fastest goals of the tournament are from the players of the same club. But there is no Trivia section here. So it's in the note. 222.67.152.235 (talk) 06:34, 23 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Wins on penalties

The section on the number of wins has 4 down for Spain but the table at the bottom only has them with three wins. I'm assuming that the contradiction is caused by the semi-final win on penalties, shouldn't there be consistency across the sections? KingStrato (talk) 19:00, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]