Talk:Tyler (Masonic)

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Origin of term

While it is plausible that the outer guard of a lodge takes the name of "Tyler" from the profession of tiling, do you have a reference to a primary source for this? This has long been unverified.

In addition I have never heard that the profession of tiling was chosen for the name because the outer guard kept watch from the roof. Is there a primary source for this statement?

I totally agree

As far as I know the point about the roof is entirely fanciful, and unless supported by authority I propose that it should be deleted.

Jezza 00:27, 14 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mackey says, "The title is derived from the Operative Art; for as in Operative Masonry the Tiler, when the edifice is erected, finishes and covers it with the roof of tiles, so in Speculative Masonry, when the Lodge is duly organized, the Tiler closes the door and covers the sacred precincts from all intrusion." Albert G. Mackey, Encyclopedia of Freemasonry, new edition, revised and enlarged, The Masonic History Company (Chicago, 1946). For his part, Claudy says, "He was called a Tiler or Tyler because the man who put on the roof or tiles (tiler) completed the building and made those within it secure from intrusion...." Carl H. Claudy, Introduction to Freemasonry, 45th printing, The Temple Publishers (Washington DC, 1958). In Ohio the word is spelled "Tyler." kcylsnavS{^screech_harrass} 15:56, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Relocation

Tyler (Freemasonry) relocated to Tyler (Masonic) in order to match in style the page names of other pages relating to masonic offices, eg:

Timothy Titus 01:25, 7 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Tyler does not have to be a Past Master in our jurisdiction, although he usually is. A lot of books I have read has the Tyler has the first office in the Progressive line, once again showing that he does not have to be a Past Master. This also contradicts the main Maonic Officers article 203.3.197.249 (talk) 02:59, 31 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The tyler does not have to be a PM in Ohio. kcylsnavS{^screech_harrass} 15:59, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Tyler or Tiler?

I am thinking that we should move this to Tiler (Masonic)... I know that, in practice, it is spelled both ways (and so fully agree that both should be mentioned)... but which is "correct"? Which variant should be used as the article title and which should be mentioned as an "alternative"? Reliable sources seem to favor "Tiler"...see: {http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/mackeys_encyclopedia/t.htm Mackey's Encyclopedia of Freemasonry], and masonicdictionary.com (citing "100 Words in Masonry"). Should we change our title to match these sources? Blueboar (talk) 13:45, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have to say I've never seen it spelt "Tiler" in practice, only in a couple of places where there has been discussion of whether there is a difference between the meaning of "Tyler" or "Tiler"

ALR (talk) 13:49, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Same here, though as you see in my comment above both Mackey and Claudy like the "i" spelling. kcylsnavS{^screech_harrass} 15:58, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I think we have to look at COMMONNAME here (qualms re: Mackey aside). My sense is that there is some sort of pretentiousness involved in the spelling in those sources, but that's not proof of much. However, I did look at dictionary.com - it states "tyler" is a variant of "tiler" (which has a given etymology dating to 1300-1450), but that the Masonic usage is the less common usage for "tiler" (the more common being "one who lays tiles"). Conversely, the Masonic usage is the only usage for "tyler" outside of surnames and given names. I would therefore lean towards saying that "tyler" is the correct, unambiguous, common title, that we should create a redirect from Tiler (Masonic) to here if it is deemed necessary, and then adjust the relevant dab page if necessary. MSJapan (talk) 17:17, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

for purposes of the article, you should change it to TILER. I know Masons and they always use TILER,

here in Rhode Island, I've never seen it spelled as TYLER. A close friend of mine was a TILER and in his obituary, that's what it is. TILER is the position. I also believe the surname TYLER is totally unconnected to TILER. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.209.62.74 (talk) 23:51, 4 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It's tyler in UGLE and Grand Lodge of Scotland ritual books. The title is standard UK English, and the alternative adequately explained. Fiddlersmouth (talk) 00:44, 5 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. The rare alternative "tiler" is adequately explained. Most Grand Lodges use "Tyler", including the oldest and largest Grand Lodge in the world (UGLE), so the current article title is undoubtedly correct. Timothy Titus ^{Talk To TT} 12:25, 5 October 2014 (UTC)[reply]

French Etymology?

Any support for the idea that the etymology of Tyler is from the French "tailleur" (one who cuts - as in a Tailor) in reference to the ceremonial sword? 62.196.17.197 (talk) 18:14, 27 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I find it unlikely. I would be surprised if the British lodges were not using tyler before freemasonry arrived in France. The earliest French material calls Bro Tyler le frère terrible extérieur. We could also posit Tailleur de pierre, but why, when only masons were present, call the outer guard the mason. Well into original research, and quite enough unsourced material already, so not without a reference. Fiddlersmouth (talk) 00:24, 28 March 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Origin again

Over at Tyler I found the same derivation, meaning a door keeper at an inn. It makes sense here, but there is no source for that etymology, especially not in Old English (Anglo-Saxon). The closest is Þyle. I've also not found that meaning given in any masonic work I've looked at.--Swahilli (talk) 09:45, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Neither Old nor Middle English, as far as I can make out. I have no idea where the rest of the "origins" came from. I suspect a "night on the tiles", being hostelry related, might be relevant, but I'd no more put it in unreferenced than I would support the rest of the paragraph. Feel free to rewrite. Fiddlersmouth (talk) 21:30, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]