Talk:Twin Parks

Text and/or other creative content from 2022 Bronx apartment fire was copied or moved into Twin Parks (New York City). The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

A fact from Twin Parks appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 1 February 2022 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that the Twin Parks housing project in New York City, the site of a January 2022 fire that killed seventeen people, won architectural awards after it was constructed in the early 1970s?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2022/February. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Twin Parks (New York City).

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'Copied' tag

I put a "copied" tag at the top of this article and not the fire article, but I am uncertain as to whether it has been properly deployed in this instance, as I have never used it before. Coretheapple (talk) 15:37, 12 January 2022 (UTC) Sorry, I got it wrong. Fixed. Coretheapple (talk) 16:14, 12 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 20:04, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

(

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Article history

)

~~... that the Twin Parks housing project in New York City, the site of a January 2022 fire that killed seventeen people, was in 1977 found to have "building violations of an electrical nature"?~~ Source: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/92454955/udc-buildings-may-be-unsafe-1977/ continuation at https://www.newspapers.com/clip/92455003/udc-buildings-may-be-unsafe-continued/ Map shows 333 East 181st Street on list of building in which the Board of Fire Underwriters found "building violations of an electrical nature"
- Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Eddie MacCabe

Created by Coretheapple (talk). Self-nominated at 00:30, 13 January 2022 (UTC).[reply]

General eligibility:

New enough:
Long enough:
Other problems: - Copied content notwithstanding, this qualifies as a new article because this page was split out from the 2022 Bronx apartment fire page, started on January 9.

Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Adequate sourcing: Neutral: Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:

Hook eligibility:

Cited:
Interesting: - I don't find the hook that interesting. If the development recently caught fire, then wouldn't it be expected that it has had building violations? It may also just be my experience with NYC buildings, but the DOB issues electrical violations quite often for various reasons.

QPQ: Done.

Overall: @Coretheapple: Nice work. Do you have any alternative hooks you can propose? Given this is a NYC building (for which sources are typically abundant), is it likely there's some other fact about this development that's interesting? Epicgenius (talk) 07:12, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

How about ALT 1 ".... that the Twin Parks housing project in New York City won architectural awards after it was constructed in the early 1970s, and was hailed as a novel approach to public housing?

Sources for ALT1 would be https://www.nytimes.com/1973/12/27/archives/twin-parks-an-effort-to-alter-the-pattern-of-public-housing.html (NY Times architectural column, recounting the awards, and https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/10/nyregion/twin-parks-north-west-housing.html and https://slate.com/business/2022/01/bronx-building-fire-twin-parks-affordable-housing-icon.html all quoted within the article --Coretheapple (talk) 13:57, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That is a step in the right direction. It may be worth including the specific architectural features that were novel. For example, the intricate arrangement of spaces that calls for a corridor every two and a half floors. Would it also be worth suggesting a third hook that is a combination of ALT0 and ALT1, like this? Epicgenius (talk) 14:05, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

ALT2: ... that the Twin Parks housing project in New York City, the site of a January 2022 fire that killed seventeen people, won architectural awards after it was constructed in the early 1970s? Epicgenius (talk) 14:05, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Sure, that would do nicely. I was surprised there was no article on Twin Parks, while there were on lesser renowned Bronx housing projects. Coretheapple (talk) 14:08, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I too was surprised this hadn't been created yet, given the number of prolific NYC editors, especially a few in the Bronx. Three years ago, I even nominated both the parks in the building's name (Crotona and Bronx Parks) for DYK, so I'm especially astonished this article didn't previously exist.

Anyway,

everything is good to go, except for the fact that ALT2 needs a second reviewer to look it over. DYK regulations dictate that I can't approve my own hook proposals, so procedurally I have to send ALT2 off for another review. It should be quick however. Epicgenius (talk) 16:59, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

OK, please note that the article has been renamed from Twin Parks (New York City) to Twin Parks, and the links need to reflect taht. I have no problem with this renaming. Coretheapple (talk) 18:04, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I like the new hook, I'll take this on for review Mujinga (talk) 21:34, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]
General eligibility:
New enough:
Long enough:
Other problems:

Policy compliance:

Adequate sourcing:
Neutral:
Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
Other problems:

Hook eligibility:

Cited:
Interesting:

QPQ: Done.

Overall: so two facts need citing on the sentence in the text, namely the fire deaths and the architectural awards. the latter is on goldberger, the former is on two paywalled NYT articles which are obviously relevant, but different to the sources mentioned above. @Coretheapple: can you add all these three sources under ALT2 please? then i think we are good to go on this DYK Mujinga (talk) 21:46, 13 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Certainly. The source for the casualty count is online in multiple sources, including: https://abcnews.go.com/US/dozens-injured-alarm-fire-york-city-apartment-building/story?id=82164322 Re awards: "Mr. Meier's buildings at Twin Parks Northeast, which have won awards from the City Club of New York and the New York Society or Architects" https://www.nytimes.com/1973/12/27/archives/twin-parks-an-effort-to-alter-the-pattern-of-public-housing.html The latter is actually online in the Google snippet, if you google Twin Parks with architectural awards. The awards and praise from Goldberger, a Pulitzer-winning critic, are noted in the article. Coretheapple (talk) 14:37, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Say I had a thought for an ALT 3. If room, how about "... that the Twin Parks housing project in New York City, the site of a January 2022 fire that killed seventeen people, won architectural awards after it was constructed in the early 1970s, and models of the design were displayed at the Whitney Museum?"

The source for the added text is online at https://www.newspapers.com/clip/92436831/ground-broken-for-twin-parks-1970/ Coretheapple (talk) 15:38, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Great so what I'm asking for is for ALT2 to be put here below, with the two claims cited with references so it's easy to check. (Also can you make Twin Parks the new link). Then can you make sure the sentences in the article which relate to the claims are referenced at the end of the sentence. Mujinga (talk) 17:27, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Feel free to tweak ALT3 a bit more, using https://wordcount.toolforge.org/ at the moment it's 249 characters and it needs to be under 200. And please do the same with the references as above. Mujinga (talk) 17:29, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

OK see below:

ALT2: "... that the Twin Parks housing project in New York City, the site of a January 2022 fire that killed seventeen people, won architectural awards after it was constructed in the early 1970s?" Sources: Seventeen dead: https://abcnews.go.com/US/dozens-injured-alarm-fire-york-city-apartment-building/story?id=82164322 "Seventeen people, including eight children, died and dozens more were injured in a fire at a Bronx apartment in New York City." Awards: https://www.nytimes.com/1973/12/27/archives/twin-parks-an-effort-to-alter-the-pattern-of-public-housing.html "Mr. Meier's buildings at Twin Parks Northeast, which have won awards from the City Club of New York and the New York Society or Architects"
ALT 3 "... that the Twin Parks housing project in the Bronx, the site of a January 2022 fire that killed seventeen people, won architectural awards, and models of the design were displayed at the Whitney Museum?" Sources: Seventeen dead: https://abcnews.go.com/US/dozens-injured-alarm-fire-york-city-apartment-building/story?id=82164322 "Seventeen people, including eight children, died and dozens more were injured in a fire at a Bronx apartment in New York City." Awards: :https://www.nytimes.com/1973/12/27/archives/twin-parks-an-effort-to-alter-the-pattern-of-public-housing.html "Mr. Meier's buildings at Twin Parks Northeast, which have won awards from the City Club of New York and the New York Society of Architects...." Whitney Museum: https://www.newspapers.com/clip/92436831/ground-broken-for-twin-parks-1970/ "Models of the Twin Parks development are on display at the Whitney Museum in Manhattan"

--Coretheapple (talk) 18:58, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Coretheapple: Cool, nearly there now.

ALT2 needs the ABC link (if you want to use that one) on the article after the sentence which state 17 deaths. Or if you want to do it the other way round, take one of the two NYT articles currently on the sentence in the article and put it here.

ALT same as above re ABC link, then the hook is just too long because "that" is included in the count so it's on 204 characters right now and it needs shortening. Mujinga (talk) 19:29, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I added the ABC News link to the article, and tweaked the hook so I think it is within parameters now. Coretheapple (talk) 20:07, 14 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

nice one, good to go on ALT2 and ALT3 Mujinga (talk) 10:41, 15 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Promoting ALT2 to Prep 7 – Kavyansh.Singh (talk) 20:04, 27 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Floor Count

How is it accurate to say "19 floors" when we're talking about scattered-site housing that includes multiple different buildings? 69.162.253.10 (talk) 14:54, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It isn't. Thanks for pointing that out. Coretheapple (talk) 16:37, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Why no photo?

Seems silly when talking about a piece of design. 72.88.90.122 (talk) 20:32, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

It isn't "silly", just that no one has gotten around to uploading a freely licensed photo. Per Wikipedia:Image use policy, the page can only use a freely licensed image, including those in the public domain or those taken by a Wikipedian. Perhaps a Bronx-based editor may be able to obtain a picture (I know RoySmith has taken many pics of buildings in the Bronx, but anyone is welcome to take a picture of the buildings and upload it). – Epicgenius (talk) 22:25, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Epicgenius thanks for the ping. That's not far from me, and the weather's supposed to be nice tomorrow. Sounds like a good excuse for a bike ride. I know the buildings, but didn't realize they had any particular significance. And I've been annoyed that the gates are always closed so you can't ride through what looks like a nice courtyard, without knowing any of the history of why. -- RoySmith (talk) 22:37, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

There are several buildings to choose from actually, as this was scatter-site housing and the project consists of several buildings, some spaced widely from each other. The one in which there was the fire could also fit into the article on the fire of course. Coretheapple (talk) 22:35, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Coretheapple if there's anything of particular significance that particularly needs a photo, let me know and I'll try to accomodate that. -- RoySmith (talk) 22:38, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks RoySmith! All I know about Twin Parks and the fire is what you see in the article, so I don't have any special thoughts. But I think that a photo of the building and perhaps some of the other ones too if possible would be worthwhile. Coretheapple (talk) 23:27, 1 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Oh, I just put 2 and 2 together and realized that this is where that big fire was a few weeks back. That explains the sudden interest. -- RoySmith (talk) 01:02, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, unfortunately the development is infamous for that now. It's pretty tragic.

(Unrelated to this article, but if you still are looking for photo suggestions Roy, the Dollar Savings Bank on Grand Concourse & Fordham Road and the nearby Paradise Theater (Bronx) are also looking for better images.) Epicgenius (talk) 13:21, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes when the fire took place a few weeks ago, the coverage touched on how Twin Parks was a notable housing project that was viewed with high hopes when it opened. A Newspapers.com search showed many articles. To my surprise, there was no article on the project in Wikipedia even though there were quite a few other articles on housing projects. Sad that it took a fire to bring prominence to Twin Parks. I imagine that there are a lot of worthy subjects in the "outer boroughs" of News York that are similarly neglected and deserve articles. Coretheapple (talk) 14:32, 2 February 2022 (UTC)[reply]