Talk:Twice singles discography

Digital singles

@Hotwiki: All singles under the promotional singles section are digital singles. What makes a digital single like "Cry for Me" and "I Want You Back" different from the rest? —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 14:27, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

For starters, I wasn't the one that added those "digital singles" in the promotional singles section. So I don't know why you are asking me that.TheHotwiki (talk) 14:30, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

As for I Want You Back and Cry for Me, they were listed under "Singles" in this article, until someone moved them to promotional singles. But I have enough proof that they are as singles as "Perfect World".TheHotwiki (talk) 14:33, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

@Hotwiki: Do you think this applies to "I Love You More Than Anyone" too? —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 14:41, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

No. Unless you have an evidence that it was treated by the group as a proper single, then feel free to mention it here.TheHotwiki (talk) 14:43, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

"Cry for Me" is certainly a digital single that should be categorized and remained categorized under Singles section as suppose to moving to Promotional singles section. Why, because it is not release to promo album or EP. As for "I Want You Back", I'm not certain if categorizing it under Singles section is factually correct since it is a cover of Michael Jackson release for that Japanese movie. Adding on, there also this misconception that having music video automatically make the release a singles rather than promotional single which I have seen happening on other artists releases, could "I Want You Back" be categorized as Singles due to this misconception?. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 15:38, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

I want You Back was released as a standalone single based from Apple music.[1]TheHotwiki (talk) 15:47, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

@Hotwiki Erm ... I believe and assume that you know that Apple Music nor Spotify nor any other music streaming platform/services cannot be used to justify the release as standalone single right? According to sources I have found on Naver News from reliable sources as per WP:KO/RS#R such as Osen, Sports Chosun (The Chosun Ilbo on English Wikipedia), Sports Donga (The Dong-a Ilbo on English Wikipedia). They reported it as "theme song for the Japanese movie". — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 16:02, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

I don't see why being a theme song/soundtrack for a film excludes it from being a single. Lady Gaga has singles that were originally used for A Star is Born. Billie Eilish/Adele has a song for James Bond films that were billed as singles.TheHotwiki (talk) 20:51, 2 September 2021 (UTC)

@Hotwiki Soundtrack appearances are still technically considered as singles even though on English Wikipedia, we categorized it with its own dedicated section which is not found in this article for god knows why. Just a correction to my comment above after further intensive research, "I Want You Back" was indeed release as single 1 month 3 days prior to the release of the movie. Maybe the conversation has derived from the initial but it is always better to further confirm while indirectly answering the question that HueMan1 has asked. Btw, would like point out that my views didn't change because of your comment but "Skyfall" does help a bit due to similarity of not included in the film original soundtrack. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 01:25, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

I don't see why there's need to be a separate section for soundtrack appearances. Lady Gaga discography, Kylie Minogue singles discography and Madonna singles discography don't separate soundtrack singles from the singles section. "Soundtrack appearances", from what I noticed are only prevalent in Kpop discography articles or sections.TheHotwiki (talk) 05:58, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

@Hotwiki I'm just saying that there is no such section in this article, not going comment for difference from Western artists discography as this has always been the case with every other articles in English Wikipedia pertaining to South Korean entertainment industry (referring to not just music but also including articles for actor/actress/television personality/comedian/television series/variety shows/reality shows/etc) but it is certainly a departure of consistency within South Korean artists discography. With or without dedicated list article doesn't matter as there isn't really any difference because all South Korean artists article started without dedicated list article, overtime when the discography section became larger than they are moved/copied over to dedicated list article. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 06:09, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

I Love You More Than Anyone

@Hotwiki: "I Love You More Than Anyone" is not a promotional single because it doesn't fit the definition of a promotional recording, please let me know if I am wrong. If we can't have a separate section for soundtrack appearances according to you, then is there any guideline that soundtrack appearances should listed under promotional singles and not directly under singles? -ink&fables «talk» 05:24, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

If you don't think it isn't a "promotional single", there's already the "other charted songs" section. Its definitely not a proper single as the group didn't promote it anywhere. So can you explain it yourself why it isn't a "promotional single" for the Hospital Tv series?TheHotwiki (talk) 07:55, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

@Hotwiki: First of all it was not released to promote the series or any album or anything. It is a single from the soundtrack of the series just like "Give You My Heart" from Crash Landing on You#Original soundtrack and "Stay with Me" from Guardian: The Lonely and Great God#Original soundtrack. Soundtrack singles are never promoted in South Korea, but if it becomes successful then it is performed on awards shows or similar events. They are even awarded on the year-end award ceremonies (e.g. Mnet Asian Music Award for Best OST). Also, I can't think of any other country in which worldwide famous artist like Twice, Red Velvet, Exo & BTS' members, participates in the soundtrack of a television series; and this is what explains 'Soundtrack appearances' being exclusive to South Korean artists' discographies. Just like you explained it can't be directly added under 'Singles', that is why it demands for an exclusive heading. I think just like Single album, 'Soundtrack appearances' section is also exclusive to South Korean discographies. -ink&fables «talk» 10:29, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

In my opinion, keep it under the "promotional singles". This wasn't an issue to other editors that have edited this page, since the song came out. The only reason I could think of why "South Korean artists have a separate soundtrack appearances section" is editors just copied the other discography pages of other South Korean artists - not because it was under Wikipedia guidelines. Artists like Kylie Minogue, Lady Gaga and Madonna either have these "soundtracks" under singles, promotional singles or other charted songs, and the discography Wikipedia article of those artists have existed longer than this one. Just because South Korean artists like BTS and Red Velvet have a soundtrack appearances section in their discography, it doesn't mean Twice have to follow especially there's no rule and guideline in Wikipedia about it.TheHotwiki (talk) 10:37, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

@Hotwiki: This wasn't an issue to other editors that have edited this page, I don't know what you want convey with this.

Is there any guidelines or discussion on wikipedia related to soundtrack appearances? Because you referring to western artists discographies is equivalent to I referring to South Korean artists discographies. If there is no guideline on this then I think it does require a bigger discussion.

And yes, in my opinion it should be listed under 'Soundtrack appearances'. -ink&fables «talk» 10:57, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

It was never an issue before, so thats why there's no "soundtrack appearance" section in the first place.TheHotwiki (talk) 11:41, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Also can I just point out that Lady Gaga discography and Madonna singles discography are "featured articles" in Wikipedia. Those articles went through extensive article reviews to get a featured article status. Its reasonable to use those articles as an example.TheHotwiki (talk) 11:44, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

@Hotwiki: Yes both are featured lists and does gives weight to your stand. I want to know which of their songs are from soundtrack of a television series? -ink&fables «talk» 12:24, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Just look it up. From the discography article of Lady Gaga and Madonna, there isn't a soundtrack song for a Tv series, only films. For Lady Gaga, some of the soundtrack songs are listed under singles and other charted songs. With Madonna, its listed under singles and promotional singles..TheHotwiki (talk) 12:34, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

The Feels

Hotwiki, can you explain to me why "The Feels" isn't a single from FOL? —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 08:46, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

First of all, the single version of the song isn't even included in the physical edition of Formula of Love: O+T=<3. Second, the single / title track of the album is "Scientist". Just because the song appeared in digital version of the album doesn't make it a single from it. How about you find a statement from JYP Entertainment, that mentions "The Feels" is a single from Formula of Love: O+T=<3? We will wait.TheHotwiki (talk) 14:03, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

​Are you totally gonna disregard the fact that the album's official tracklist has 17 tracks instead of just 15? —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 23:01, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Where in that link it states The Feels is a single from Formula of Love: O+T<3?TheHotwiki (talk) 23:06, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

@Hotwiki: So, you're telling me that they released a non-single version of "The Feels" just for the digital album? If that's the case then why did it appear on the pre-release of FOL? —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 01:47, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

It isn't a single from the album. Now feel free to find a reliable source or an official statement from JYP Entertainment that The Feels is a single from Formula of Love. Scientist is clearly the title track aka "single" based from JYP's press releases.TheHotwiki (talk) 09:32, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

I know it's late almost 3 years but i need to inform you about 2 facts:

1. The song was used to promote the album. The album's information appears at the end of the music video (although the album's title is not shown)

2. "Title track" is not same as "lead single". The term "lead single" in South Korea is "pre-release single". Most title tracks are not singles btw (except for some title tracks that are released separately from the album like "Life Goes On" by BTS), it's just a song that is promoted like a single, but still counted as single since all title track are sent to radio statios as "radio single". Although JYP did not label the song as "pre-released single", the song, in fact, is used as "promotional single" of the album. -GogoLion (talk) 20:41, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Soompi explicitly cited it as pre-released single (https://www.soompi.com/article/1507163wpp/twice-debuts-on-billboards-pop-radio-airplay-chart-for-1st-time-with-the-feels)

Rolling Stone says "The song comes off the group’s latest album" (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/twice-the-feels-live-colbert-late-show-1355640/amp/)

Vulture gives statement "The new project includes both the English and Korean version of their earlier single The Feels” (https://www.vulture.com/2021/11/twice-drops-scientist-video-formula-of-love-album.html) GogoLion (talk) 21:05, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Again, the English/single version of The Feels was only added in the digital edition of Formula of Love, and was left out in the original physical copies. It didn't act like a pre-release single, compare to Moonlight Sunrise and I Got You. Once again, I disagree. Hotwiki (talk) 21:57, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Is there any reliable source say that only physical releases will be recognized on discography classification?

? -GogoLion (talk) 23:49, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

Plenty of singles are included in a studio album, but just because its included in the album, it doesn't automatically mean its a single from an album. See Spice Girls discography for an example - their single "Goodbye" was included in their album, Forever. The discography article, single article and the album single, doesn't list Goodbye as a single from Forever. "The Feels" isn't marketed/labeled as a single or a pre-release single for Formula of Love. The single version of "The Feels" being excluded in the physical release of Formula of Love, is just another reason why it isn't a single from Formula of Love. Because why would JYP Entertainment exclude a single from the physical copy, if its a single from that album? Hotwiki (talk) 08:31, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

Goodbye is not cited as single from Forever because they literally announced "Holler" as the lead single 🤨

Also, a single is not necessary announced as "first single of the album" for being classified as the lead single from an album. Take "my future" by Billie Eilish as example. She and Interscope literally never say thay "my future" will be the lead single of Happier Than Ever but still cited as lead single of Happier Than Ever. -GogoLion (talk) 11:08, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

JYP Entertainment never called The Feels as a single for Formula of Love. It was pretty clear that Scientist was the title track aka the single of Formula of Love based from JYP Entertainment's press releases for Formula of Love. The Feels wasn't called as a pre-release single and the single version/English version was just a digital bonus track for Formula of Love. Also like you've said, you're almost 3 years late. This has been discussed and settled a long time ago. We've had actual pre-release singles from Twice since then – Moonlight Sunrise and I Got You.Hotwiki (talk) 11:20, 24 March 2024 (UTC)

RIAJ

@Nkon21: Do you mind if I ask why you removed all the (Dig.) from the table? —hueman1 (talk • contributions) 14:53, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Similar to other discographies such as Blackpink and BTS, two or more same level certifications given by one organization does not need to be listed twice, mainly to save space given their many certifications. ɴᴋᴏɴ21 ❯❯❯ talk 20:59, 27 January 2022 (UTC)