Talk:Tuvia Bielski

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Naliboki massacre?

Is it true that Bielski took part in Naliboki massacre (of Belarus and Polish citizens)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Naliboki_massacre —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.121.104.240 (talk) 10:36, 2 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

yes, it is... there are still alive witnesses: http://torrentflux.wordpress.com/2008/05/24/tewje-bielski-i-jego-partyzanci/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.4.184.10 (talk) 01:10, 8 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

According to a recent book he didn't.Xx236 (talk) 11:05, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

these are the controverses about him —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.151.115.9 (talk) 19:07, 14 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Name

Is there any particular reason why this article is entitled "Tuvie" but he is referred to throughout as "Tuvia"? Stetsonharry (talk) 23:32, 22 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

corporal

He was a corporal, but I'm not sure if in infantry or uhlan.Xx236 (talk) 11:06, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The real name of Bielski was Tewje (Anatol) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.28.175.35 (talk) 22:17, 24 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Straight out of the movie

This article quotes the ending text of Defiance verbatim. Can somebody confirm this from independent sources instead of simply saying things like "He never knew the child he father with Chaya" when "Chaya" is not mentioned at all in this article previously. This article needs to be cleaned up and have better sources than a dramatization of real events.

Appeal

I'd like all the vandals who constantly undo my well-sourced/documented edition of the article not to do so anymore. You could at least give a reason in the 'describe edition' bar. If you do have some objections, please share them here in the discussion page before undoing my edit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.12.91.242 (talk) 14:35, 23 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

While I do agree with you that the controversy over his involvement in atrocities should be mentioned, what you added to the article is a complete violation of NPOV policy. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 15:31, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, I'm happy to see you trying to solve our problem here. I'm looking forward to see your specific stricture/objections that make you think of my edition as POV. How is this a violation of NPOV? My edition is well sourced, well documented, so it has a good backup in proven facts. Regards.--83.12.91.242 I'd like to encourage you not to undo my edit, since you admit yourself that you basically agree with it, and because it is well sourced, untill we work out some consensus or some "deus ex machina" -like independent arbiter comes in. THANKS for respecting that. (talk) 17:31, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

On this latest spat - I used to have this article and related ones (like the one on the film) watchlisted and paid attention to them but honestly I don't have time to keep up with all this degeneration of articles. But basically, what happened is that when the movie came out, there were some allegations made in Poland that the Bielskis participated in the Naliboki massacre. Most of these allegations came from non-mainstream sources, but some mainstream sources noted that this allegation was being made. IPN had an investigation, historians looked into it and the bottomline, more or less, was that some of the Soviet partisans that the Bielskis fraternized with, and perhaps even an individual or two from the Bielski group (it was a large group) were present at the Naliboki massacre. The massacre itself though was the work of Soviet partisans, not the Bielski group. Bielskis themselves were nowhere near the area when it happened. This controversy, at least the Bielskis' part in it was pretty quickly put to rest.

Other than that the "criticisms" of the movie made in Poland - and by Tec herself - centered around the facts that:

1) The Bielskis were Polish Jews. They spoke Polish and possibly Belarusian. Not Russian. This is completely absent in the movie.

2) The Naliboki forest was full of partisans of all stripes; Polish, Jewish, Russian, etc. These "two divisions that Hitler personally sent to get the Bielskis" weren't sent after the Bielski but to just generally clear the area of all these guys who were running around.

3) Related to 1) and 2), there was a quite large and effective Polish resistance (Home Army, AK) unit in the area. According to Tec's book, which the movie is based on, the Bielskis and the AK unit got along quite well and helped each other out. Tuvia and the commander of the AK unit were close friends. Then the Polish unit left the area because it was chased out either by the Soviet partisans or by German/Lithuanian forces (I forget which one atm). This was also completely omitted from the movie.

4) There were no battles with tanks or even shooting at Germans with machine guns. Very understandably the Bielskis tried to avoid German forces at all costs. Hell, even much better armed and trained Soviet and Polish partisans did too. There was some small scale ambushes and the killing of small (a few individuals) groups of German gendermes or collaborators. But that kind of thing isn't enough for a Hollywood movie.

That's about it, and if I had time and the patience to keep fixing and re-fixing these articles I'd look up the actual sources (again). But I don't. Volunteer Marek 06:34, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

ADMINS !!!

WHY DON'T YOU REACT TO THOSE VANDALISM THIS ARTICLES IS CONSTANTLY SUBCJETED TO? PLZ DO YOUR JOB. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.12.91.242 (talk) 10:04, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

JUST A COMMENT. I am not going to rewrite this article, it is not worth it. The man was more honest than the editors of his bi-entry in wikipedia. He said he never fought Germans, he himself stated they raided and robbed Polish peasants. He was just for the lowest level of survival and he knew it. He collaborated with the Soviets, fought hand in hand with the Soviets angainst Polish Home Army troops and than participated in treacherous disarmament of the Polish troops. the source? a jewish newspaper http://wyborcza.pl/1,76842,6125087,The_True_Story_of_the_Bielski_Brothers.html and Tevies own words quoted in the books about him. He died the way he deserved - alone and without pity. Thats why I will not rewrite the article about somebody like him, it is just not worth it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.147.70.28 (talk) 17:23, 28 November 2018 (UTC)[reply]