Talk:Turkey in the Straw

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Songs

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of songs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SongsWikipedia:WikiProject SongsTemplate:WikiProject Songssong articles

"The Rose Tree"

At http://parentseyes.arizona.edu/msw/westernfiddle/tmy_fiddlers_1987.html we read:

Most scholars attribute its melody to an eighteenth-century British air called "The Rose Tree."

If that claim is true, and we can find a good citation, we should probably add that to the article. Adam Di Carlo 19:47, 20 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This content now moved here. Ibadibam (talk) 21:57, 6 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Do Your Ears Hang Low

Any relation to "Do Your Ears Hang Low"? They sound alike. Jigen III 13:19, 6 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The statement seems to have appeared in the article, but I don't think the tunes are the same. Can't find a downloadable recording of Turkey so I'm not sure. DJ Clayworth 14:12, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Very similar tune. I'd guess "Ears" was based on it, with the phrasing changed a bit. -- Infrogmation 15:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

We don't have an article on campfire song and I'm at a loss to know where a relevent article would be, if we have one yet for this sort of oral tradition folk music. -- Infrogmation 15:40, 10 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

While the two are very similar, they are not exactly the same. The best places to note the difference is toward the end of the chorus, the notes are different. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.149.237.77 (talk) 07:46, 23 March 2007 (UTC).[reply]

I suspect that these two songs would fit Samuel Preston Bayard's definition of a "melodic family" Isn't the "ears" an 18th century tune, with referrence to a "Continental soldier"? Pustelnik 21:38, 3 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

They seem to be related, but certainly not note for note and measure for measure the same. There should be no merger. Not unless we want to be consistent and merge The Star Spangled Banner with To Anacreon in Heaven. Edison (talk) 19:59, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

William Tell

I think the melody is from Guillaume Tell by Rossini. --W. Kronf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.132.167.79 (talk) 09:42, 15 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Doubt it. They sound little alike. — Brian (talk) 10:19, 15 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is now a page for "Do Your Ears Hang Low?." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tingotroy (talk • contribs) 15:46, 15 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Variants on the "Hot Water" Verse

Well, I had a little chicken, and she wouldn't lay an egg,/ So I poured hot water up and down her leg./ Oh! the little chicken pleaded, and the little chicken begged,/ And the little chicken laid me a hard 'boilt' egg.

I also like this one, as it exemplifies the idea of "vagrant" or "transient" verses and the thought that some verses were sung impromptu to dance tunes.

There's an old man settin' in the corner of a mill,/ And the wheel goes around of its own free will./ Oh, the wheat is in the hopper and the corn is in the sack--/ Gents, step forward! Ladies, step back!

(Those are in a North Carolina version from the nineteen-oughts.)

Terry J. Carter (talk) 23:39, 7 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Library of Congress Turkey in the Straw

http://www.loc.gov/jukebox/recordings/detail/id/1999 at 2:00 in to this 1910 routine Billy Golden performs a version of Turkey in the Straw. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Glipkerio (talk • contribs) 21:39, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Page 58 of The Americana Song Reader By William Emmett Studwell

Anyone out there need to discuss coming coming edits based on information that can currently be found here? http://books.google.com/books?id=VhV1u2oIb-QC&pg=PP3&lpg=PP3&dq=The+Americana+Song+Reader&source=bl&ots=CyZE1SphLi&sig=O3q1Nx000svgFBCs-xP_4qsrUGE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=yrrcUYacH4_Q9AS8roDADA&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=turkey%20in&f=false Steve Pastor (talk) 01:46, 10 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral POV as usual Nonexistant...

Harry C. Browne recorded a racist version in 1916 called "Nigger Love a Watermelon Ha! Ha! Ha!". This version relied heavily on the offensive and widespread coon stereotype.

So much for that NEUTRAL POV we keep hearing so much about...

If the "racist", "coon stereotype" was so "offensive", why was it "widespread"?

Try not judging the past with modern sensibilities. This is a foolish and intellectually dishonest practice. This is not to excuse the past, rather it shows how enlightened we have become.

In case we become too smug in our assessments, we should remember that people will be judging OUR attitudes and behaviors in the future. Should WE be judged by THEIR mores?

––And to make a similar point, if the original article is about "Turkey In The Straw", why is the later-written variant, "Zip Coon," featured more prominently than the original song that the article is supposed to be about? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.65.130.228 (talk) 15:00, 13 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

If the "racist", "coon stereotype" was so "offensive", why was it "widespread"? -- perhaps because people didn't care so much back then about offending the underclass? Perhaps because people liked being offensive? Lots of possible reasons. --jpgordon^{::==( o )} 18:42, 13 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"Try not judging the past with modern sensibilities."

Dude, "Nigger love a watermelon, ha-ha ha-ha" was racist by the standards of the time, let alone now. Go and listen to it. Of course, judging by your use of quotes to suggest disagreement, you apparently don't even think that the coon stereotype itself was racist, so I'm not sure you'll get it.

Should a link be added to both the NPR article and John McWhorter's New Republic piece? http://www.npr.org/blogs/codeswitch/2014/05/11/310708342/recall-that-ice-cream-truck-song-we-have-unpleasant-news-for-you and then there's this: http://www.newrepublic.com/article/117792/racist-ice-cream-song-story-nprcom-wrong. The only other reference to this version I can find in actual print is this book called Jelly Roll, Bix and Hoagy: Gennett Records and the Rise of America's Musical Grassroots (2013) by Rick Kennedy "For his first session in Richmond in July, Cox arrived on time to record 'Nigger Loves a Watermelon.' While Ku Klux Klan discs waxed in Richmond never listed Gennett or Starr Piano, Cox's overtly racist song was issued on the Electrobeam and Champion labels. (During the era, the word 'nigger' appeared on old-time songs for several record labels, including Columbia and Victor.)" (p.199) This is about Bill Cox, who was an old time music singer. 68.84.83.104 (talk) 04:19, 26 October 2014 (UTC) Anonymous User[reply]

South Park Drunken Barn Dance?

It sounds like the early part of the song was used for the Drunken Barn Dance segment in the 1st season finale episode "Cartman's Mom Is a Dirty Slut", however they never move on the the later more recognizable part. If it's the song, they just repeat the beginning a bunch of times. I don't have much of an ear for music so perhaps someone could confirm? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gerald0896 (talk • contribs) 12:13, 28 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The medley on the page

I think the medley is wonderful, as far as the sound goes, but the fact that it mixes two tunes seems to make it inappropriate for this page. Could we edit it down to just Turkey in the Straw or find another performance? Phiwum (talk) 19:14, 22 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge of Nigger Love a Watermelon, Ha! Ha! Ha! into Turkey in the Straw

This racist variant of Turkey in the Straw has no independent notability. The article relies almost entirely on a smattering of news articles about ice cream trucks from 2014 – far short of enduring coverage.

I did find a few brief mentions of the song in higher quality sources (not cited in the current version),[1][2][3] but they support merging: they discuss the original Turkey in the Straw and the more overtly racist lyrics together, because both were used in minstrelsy and obviously when played from an ice cream truck you can't tell the difference. – Joe (talk) 15:17, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support – per above and WP:REDUNDANTFORK. —Bloom6132 (talk) 15:35, 18 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose I am going to oppose, not because I think it's a nice title or any promotion, I feel that it would put WP:UNDUE to merge that song into here because the broader one touches on the songs based upon it but the other song goes into detail about it and its controversial title that would take away from the Turkey tune here. The C of E God Save the Queen! (talk) 16:05, 1 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support per above. There isn't enough information on the offensive variant to be worth its own separate article. SnowFire (talk) 05:57, 3 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. I see no harm in merging the two. The article is very short anyway. Scorpions13256 (talk) 02:14, 14 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support per nom. Not noteworthy or significant enough to warrant its existance WikiRavaen (talk) 23:57, 11 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Support. It will make the article a just a little more cluttery. I'm just going to go ahead and do it when I have a moment tomorrow if no more objection arises. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 05:03, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Done. Probably needs some cleanup. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 18:03, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Orphaned references in Turkey in the Straw

I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Turkey in the Straw's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "npr":

From Andrew Jackson: Smith, Robert (April 15, 2011). "When the U.S. paid off the entire national debt (and why it didn't last)". Planet Money. NPR. Retrieved January 15, 2014.
From Nigger Love a Watermelon, Ha! Ha! Ha!: "Recall That Ice Cream Truck Song? We Have Unpleasant News For You". NPR. 2014-05-11. Retrieved 2021-05-18.

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 19:38, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Fixed, thank you Mr. or Ms. Robot. --jpgordon^{𝄢𝄆𝄐𝄇} 23:21, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Whiskey in the Jar

This has got to be the worst version of Whiskey in the Jar I have ever heard. Luke Ceallaigh and the Dubhlinners do it properly: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=sO36TRhzOJU

"As I was going over the far-famed Ciarraí mountains" ... "There's uisce in the jar"

Sad to hear such a great Irish song turned into such racist muck.

121.127.212.32 (talk) 07:27, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

19160300 Nigger Love A Watermelon-Harry C Browne.ogg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 23:40, 22 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Why is 'Unsquare Dance' in See Also?

It isn't mentioned in the article body, nor is 'Turkey in the Straw' mentioned in the 'Unsquare Dance' article? Can it be removed? Uranium grenade (talk) 19:09, 13 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]