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Pantographs?

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Apparently since this article was originally written it has claimed in the second sentence of the lead paragraph that:

Modern trolleytrucks use pantographs.

Can anyone find a reference to back up this claim? Do these modern systems use split pantographs or do they try to return a single overhead line voltage to ground/earth? Most of the photos I have seen on the commons and from the external references show the use of pairs of trolley poles not pantographs and I am unsure about how easy it would be to construct a viable trolleytruck line that used pantograph current delivery. Thank you. I have placed a fact tag on the sentence for now. 67.86.73.252 (talk) 16:22, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The apparent source for the original claim about pantographs is probably at [1] by Richard C. DeArmond. See below for even more supportive information. 67.86.73.252 (talk) 01:05, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A problem with a simplistic rewording to "Modern trolleytrucks use pairs of trolley poles." would be the retention of the word "Modern" which in turn implies that a change in electric current delivery technology took place over the history of the use of trolleytrucks. By the way, the lead for the trolleybus article explains the use of trolley pole pairs rather well and could be adapted for use in this separate article. 67.86.73.252 (talk) 14:11, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note that further down in the Trolleybus#Background article there is mention of three or four disinct current delivery systems used of the history of trolleybus development. They are or were:
  1. Schiemann-Bielathal (Dresden) (10 July 1901 to present) the familiar two trolley pole system
  2. Cedes-Stoll system (Dresden) (1902-1904), designed by Carl Stoll was also used in Vienna (when?). This trolleytruck article mentions that the Stoll system was used in Switzerland (1918-1922).
  3. Lloyd-Köhler or Bremen system (Bremen) (when?), and the Filovia was demonstrated near Milan (was this a fourth current system type?).
The latter two or three current delivery systems may no longer be in use anywhere (outside of museums). The first one used is the one still in use by trolleytrucks to this day. Unfortunately, that trolleybus article does not explain how the latter two or three differed from the first (but questions about those differences may be more appropriate to bring up at Talk:Trolleybus). 67.86.73.252 (talk) 23:29, 6 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The Bombardier Guided Light Transit system used in Nancy and Caen is a rubber tyred passenger bus that uses a pantograph (presumably the single guide rail in the street can be used for ground return). The Caen lines can use pantographs exclusively, but the Nancy system is equipped to switch to dual trolley poles along routes that also serve conventionsal trolleybuses. The Translohr system also uses pantographs in France, Italy, and China (TEDA Modern Guided Rail Tram, Zhangjiang Tram). Neither the GLT nor the Translohr systems seem to operate with freight, all deployments so far have been strictly for passenger operation. 67.86.73.252 (talk) 13:23, 8 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

From the photos posted at [2] it appears that the Stoll trolleybus current delivery system is similar to the trolley pole pair, but instead of stiff spring loaded poles there are trolley wheels on top of the wire pair and the current is delivered to the bus via limp cables. The German version of the trolleybus article at de:Oberleitungsbus goes into great detail about the different early power delivery systems. 67.86.73.252 (talk) 05:01, 9 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I propose the following rewrite of the lead for this article: 67.86.73.252 (talk) 00:01, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

A trolleytruck (also known as a trolley truck[1]) is a trolleybus-like vehicle used for carrying cargo instead of passengers. A trolleytruck is usually a type of electric truck powered by two overhead wires, from which it draws electricity using two trolley poles or pantographs. Two current collectors are required in order to supply and return current, because the return current cannot pass to the ground (as is done by streetcars on rails[2]) since trolleytrucks use tires that are insulators. Trolleytrucks have been used in various places around the world and are still in use within Russia and Ukraine. Lower powered trucks, such as might be seen on the streets of a city, tend to use trolley poles for current collection. Higher powered trucks, such as those used for large construction or mining projects, may exceed the power capacity of trolley poles and have to use pantographs instead.[3][4]

The proposed rewrite has been added to the article. 67.86.73.252 (talk) 03:24, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The irony: after having rewritten the lead to this article I have finally found a couple of corroborating websites that support the claim that "Modern trolleytrucks use pantographs." as originally written. Apparently the very large (more than 100 ton) dump trucks used in dam construction and mining use so much power that trolley poles do not deliver enough current or power. In the mid 20th century engineers resorted to equipping the monster trucks with pantograph pairs so that more power could be delivered. Siemens is still in the business of supplying engineering and power supply equipment to mines as seen at the [3] page and the Hutnyak consulting engineers in the US at [4] and at [5] which give historical information and a great deal about the specific mines worldwide (that will form a nice source for filling out this article). My apologies. I will rework the lead of the article to reflect this newfound information. 67.86.73.252 (talk) 00:43, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The revised proposal that acknowledges the use of both poles and pantographs has been added to the article. I have struck the text here on the talk page so that further edits may go directly into the article instead. 67.86.73.252 (talk) 01:21, 13 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ In the United Kingdom a trolley may refer to the hand operated wheeled vehicle called a hand truck in the North America. In North American usage the term trolley truck may also be used to refer to the wheelset or bogie that a streetcar rides upon.
  2. ^ Trams may collect current from a single wire with a single trolley pole or pantograph and return the current to earth via the rail.
  3. ^ "Siemens History - Industry & Automation". 2009-01-12.
  4. ^ "Trolley History". Hutnyak Consulting. Retrieved 2009-01-12.

German article

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The german article on this topic is well illustrated and at de:Güter-Obus. 67.86.73.252 (talk) 03:40, 12 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

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