Talk:Trasianka
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Patois?
[edit]Would this classify as a patois? I just wonder, since it seems that Russian and Belarussian are quite similar, closely related languages, and that this language would have more in common with for instance Portuñol, than a traditional Creole or Patois...
- I have read the text on patois here in Wikipedia and think trasianka can be considered patois. However, Belarusian linguists do not use this description for trasianka, neither any linguist I've read or heard (but my experience is limited of course). Marian.
Trasianka
[edit]i'd like to learn more about trasianka. i've started doing research on the slavs and the slavic languages. i'm hoping this will help me do research on the aleuts and the aleut language. (it's a long story...)
Gringo300 10:50, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
Current status
[edit]We need more information on this language. Does it have native speakers (i.e. children who grew up speaking it)? Or is it confined to one generation of grown-ups, and likely to disappear in the near future?
BTW, just because Belarusians have prejudice against the word "creole" is no reason to avoid classifying it so, if it meets the requirements. All the best, Jorge Stolfi 18:02, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
No, it does not meet the criteria for classifying it as "creole". You have misuunderstood what's written there in the first part of the article -- Marian Sloboda
Imprecise and over-generalized formulation removed
[edit]Cesarion, apologies for removing the text you added, but it was not only Russian that was considered civilised - there was Polish as well on the territory of present Belarus. Second, your statement that Russianized "mother tongue" was considered better is over-generalized - by WHOM and WHEN? Third, this is not connected that much to trasianka, the significance of spread of which is reported for the SECOND half of the 20th century (this being connected to the official policy of language cultivation in the context of harmonious "Russian-national" bilingualism development; migrations from rural areas to urban places; and some other, lesser, factors). Until 1980s, trasianka was referred to as "mixed Belarusian-Russian speech" (zmeshanaye belaruska-ruskaje maulennie) and the like. This article, as I take it, is about "trasianka". - Best, Marian.
Lukashenka speaks Trasianka?
[edit]Does Lukashenka really speaks Trasianka? I've always thought he spoke Russian? Marxolang (talk) 15:10, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
- Lukashenka speaks Russian with thick Belarusian accent, with significant phonetical changes, which is often derided and some pearls deserve the writing of the article Lukashisms (unfortunately not much RS). The most popular one is when Lukashenko promised 'peretrahivat' the parliament. The correct Russian pronunciation is 'peretryahivat' and means " to shake over" in the meaning "to weed"/"to dust off", while from his mouth came the word meaning "to fuck them all in turn regularly". Staszek Lem (talk) 18:50, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
Example
[edit]Translation of part of the 1977 Soviet Constitution into Trasianka and Belarusian language.
| Russian Language | Trasianka | Belarusian language |
|---|---|---|
| Глава 1. ПОЛИТИЧЕСКАЯ СИСТЕМА
Статья 1. Союз Советских Социалистических Республик есть социалистическое общенародное государство, выражающее волю и интересы рабочих, крестьян и интеллигенции, трудящихся всех наций и народностей страны. Статья 2. Вся власть в СССР принадлежит народу. Народ осуществляет государственную власть через Советы народных депутатов, составляющие политическую основу СССР. Все другие государственные органы подконтрольны и подотчетны Советам народных депутатов. Статья 3. Организация и деятельность Советского государства строятся в соответствии с принципом демократического централизма: выборностью всех органов государственной власти снизу доверху, подотчётностью их народу, обязательностью решений вышестоящих органов для нижестоящих. Демократический централизм сочетает единое руководство с инициативой и творческой активностью на местах, с ответственностью каждого государственного органа и должностного лица за порученное дело. |
Глава 1. ПАЛІЦІЧАСКАЯ СІСЦЕМА
Стацья 1. Саюз Савецкіх Сацыялісцічаскіх Рэспублік есць сацыялісцічаскае абшчанароднае гасударства, выражаюшчае волю і інцярэсы рабочых, красцян і інцелігенцыі, трудзяшчыхся ўсех нацый і народнасцей страны. Стацья 2. Уся ўласць у СССР прынадлежыт народу. Народ асушчастляет гасударсцвеную ўласць чэраз Саветы народных дзепутатаў, састаўляюшчыя паліцічаскую аснову СССР. Усе другія гасударсцвенныя органы падкантрольны і падатчотны Саветам народных дзепутатаў. Стацья 3. Арганізацыя і дзеяцельнасць Савецкага гасударства строяцца ў саатвецтвіі з прынцыпам дземакрацічаскава цэнтралізма: выбарнасцю ўсех органаў гасударсцвенай уласці знізу доверху, падатчотнасцю іх народу, абязацельнасцю рашэній вышастаяшчых органаў для ніжастаяшчых. Дземакрацічаскі цэнтралізм сачытает едзінае рукаводства з ініцыяцівай і творчаскай акціўнасцю на мястах, с атвецтвенасцю каждава гасударственава органа і далжнаснова ліца за паручанае дзела. |
Глава 1. ПАЛІТЫЧНАЯ СІСТЭМА
Артыкул 1. Саюз Савецкіх Сацыялістычных Рэспублік ёсць сацыялістычная агульнанародная дзяржава, якая выказвае волю і інтарэсы рабочых, сялян і інтэлігенцыі, працоўных ўсіх нацый і народнасцей краіны. Артыкул 2. Ўся ўлада ў СССР належыць народу. Народ ажыццяўляе дзяржаўную ўладу праз Саветы народных дэпутатаў, якія складаюць палітычную аснову СССР. Усе іншыя дзяржаўныя органы падкантрольныя і падсправаздачныя Саветам народных дэпутатаў. Артыкул 3. Арганізацыя і дзейнасць Савецкай дзяржавы будуюцца ў адпаведнасці з прынцыпам дэмакратычнага цэнтралізма: выбарнасць усіх органаў дзяржаўнай улады знізу даверху, падсправаздачнасць іх народу, абавязковасць рашэнняў вышэйшых органаў для ніжэйстаячых. Дэмакратычны цэнтралізм спалучае адзінае кіраўніцтва з ініцыятывай і творчай актыўнасцю на месцах, з адказнасцю кожнага дзяржаўнага органа і службовай асобы за даручаную справу. |
Why shouldn't we add it to the main article? --Czalex 21:57, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
Slur?
[edit]Is that even noteworthy name to have in Wikipedia? After reading, it seems it's just a recent nationalistic slur of anti-Russian publicist. The other name mentioned in text (meshanka, "mixture") seems a lot more appropriate seeing it's used by the concerned population not bitter emigrant.
External links modified
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External links modified
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The reference to Вахтин, Николай; in not a reliable source. The sub-website is described as "project" and its pages contain discaimer that it it unfinished and accuracy not guaranteed: "Приносим извинения: данный текст может содержать неточности и находится в процессе редактирования." . I am going to move this link to "external links" as a supplementary reading, rather than encyclopedic source. Staszek Lem (talk) 18:36, 5 December 2019 (UTC)