Talk:Trapt/Archive 1

Band Name

"The band chose their name because they felt trapped by their upper middle-class Bay Area town and privileged upbringing. The alternate spelling of "Trapped" represents their rebellious ways."

I hardly think that one changed letter is in any way "rebellious". There are numerous other bands that have similar names (Staind comes first to mind). I'm deleting that until someone has a better reason to leave it in.--Swuster 21:25, 4 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Right. The idea of being 'trapped' and breaking free..and them finding 'freedom' in music, or however you want to say it..not a letter change.

Rewrote article

I've rewritten most of the article to stop it sounding like an advert, and I've also added a couple of citations. Let me know what you think. H4cksaw 12:53, 6 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'd like more information brought to the article's proverbial table altogether; there is a lot missing here, and the article needs to be guided in the right direction.

That being said, I believe H4cksaw's revision is beginning that guidance, and support it. .Absolution. 10:15, 27 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Removed sentence "There biggest influence is the numetal band KORN" because a) it has multiple errors and b) the band don't sound anything like Korn. 217.33.154.66 (talk) 14:51, 10 October 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Official site directs to Myspace

The official site now directs to their Myspace page, so i'm going to remove the "Trapt's official site" link, but im pretty sure the site will be back up once their new album is out.

btw do you think its worth mentioning their tracks "Lost in a portrait" from The Punisher soundtrack or "Perfect Dream"? ^_^ ReVOLv3R 06:07, 23 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've seen other pages that do, so why not? :) I have a lot of unreleased, independent Trapt songs, I can add to the titles to the list when it's made.

Genre

i know trapt is definately HARD rock...but when did they become metal? look at the wikipedia thingy at the top of the page —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Inuxshinedown (talk • contribs) 01:53, 11 May 2007 (UTC).[reply]

That's there because they fall into a subgenre of "heavy metal" I guess..I don't know. I suppose it fits

Trapt Singles

Who keeps adding singles to the Trapt page which dont exist, are never played on the radio or dont have music videos. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.120.225.195 (talk) 22:07, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ahem. Quite. Your edits were reverted by myself and Obscurans because they removed valid information. You might want to take a look at this link for proof that they were indeed released as singles. -Panser Born- (talk) 22:14, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, fine. But there isnt Lost Realist. And none of them have music videos, hmm? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.120.225.195 (talk) 22:59, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

You do have a point about Lost Realist — I think someone slipped that in quite recently, I certainly haven't noticed it until now. I'll remove it for now, at least until someone else can provide evidence to the contrary. I've no idea whether any of them have music videos or not, but neverthless, even if they don't, they still qualify as singles. -Panser Born- (talk) 23:11, 28 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ok, thats fair

They don't have music videos to them, nor are they singles. Trapt also usually announces their singles :) AllAroundMe 07:10, 15 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Lost Realist

It is a single, just check out iTunes and there is in fact an "album" titled "Lost Realist - Single." Hope this clears things up.

Location

Unless someone can come up with a source that the band now resides in Vancouver, I'm removing it.

Fair use rationale for Image:Trapt 2005.jpg

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BetacommandBot 19:17, 30 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Split discography?

Split - Discography section is lengthy and approaching half of the page length. --Jax 0677 (talk) 02:19, 8 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified

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Facebook and comments controversy

There should be mention of the comments the vocalist has been making about the congresswoman and towards the post commenters. It’s relevant information especially since the official band page is being used to call FB users “cucks” and stuff. Themerriwell (talk) 22:19, 14 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Social media use sources

Feel free to add any reliable sources you find:

Sergecross73 msg me 19:43, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What is your purpose in posting these links—are you suggesting some change to the article space? NedFausa (talk) 19:48, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I’m going to write up something later. Based off of some of the sources, it shows there’s along pattern, not just the recent outburst. I was going to document it, as it’s unusual for a musician to use their official account to berate people to the point that reliable sources are documenting it like this. Sergecross73 msg me 21:10, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I'd also like to note that the recently added content seems a bit excessive. I do agree that it should be included in the article, but I think it should probably be trimmed per WP:UNDUE. I can help trim it a bit, but want to do this collaboratively as it seems there's a number of interested editors here. Waggie (talk) 21:18, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that version, which I did not write, sounds more like something a blogger or gossip outlet would write. I’ve removed it. But there is a right way to do it. I’ll put something together later today. Sergecross73 msg me 21:23, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

It's worth noting that of the three links provided above, one is from 2015 and The A.V. Club relies heavily on Slate—as does another (not shown above), Metal Injection. So in effect we're reduced to a single source covering the recent tweet storm. That's bound to lead to questions about reliability. NedFausa (talk) 21:43, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

AV Club is on WP:RSMUSIC, and Slate is generally considered reliable, so I don’t think reliability will be an issue. WP:UNDUE could come up, but that’s why I’m proposing it cover years worth of incidents, showing it’s not just a one-off thing. Metal Sucks documents a bunch more (and is also on RSMUSIC.) Sergecross73 msg me 21:49, 19 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, summarizing years worth of social media rants is the right thing to do. Examples that are widely described by themselves can be singled out. Binksternet (talk) 05:45, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Why does Trapt get this stuff on their wiki page? Other bands do stupid stuff but don’t have this stuff listed. Is it just because it seems to be a reoccurring thing? News AV Club is a cheap website. They’re like Buzzfeed. SandwichGuy234 (talk) 04:19, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Other musical artists also get noticed for stupid stuff they say. Trapt isn't alone. Binksternet (talk) 05:45, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

That’s absolute nonsense. It’s frequently documented when artists say controversial things. Look at Kanye West for example. And as already pointed out, there is already a long-standing consensus that AV Club is a usable source, not to mention there are many other reliable sources that back it all up. Sergecross73 msg me 13:30, 21 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Chris Taylor Brown out

See section below. Looks like it was a hoax. Further discussion should be done there to avoid concurrent discussions. Sergecross73 msg me 16:59, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The band announced on Parler that they parted ways with Chris Taylor Brown. https://parler.com/post/33a8f8a8603b4e85b12f623cd24c55b0 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seblake513 (talk • contribs) 21:36, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Needs a better source. Social media in general isn’t ideal. Please find a reliable third party source, like something from WP:RSMUSIC. If this is real, I’m sure websites will pick it up. Sergecross73 msg me 22:10, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

So, realistically the 3rd party sources are going to likely report based on a post from the bands official social media page, how is that any different than a user doing the same? --50.66.190.147 (talk) 23:57, 14 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I can go into detail if you insist, but the short version is that’s how the entire website works if people are following policies. Sergecross73 msg me 00:03, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, I would. Because exactly what I JUST said would happen has happened. Metal Sucks, which is a "reliable source" per the link you added earlier, just reported exactly what you're arguing against, and cited the bands social media page as their official source. So yes, I seriously would like to know why the bands OFFICIAL SOCIAL MEDIA PAGE is not a reliable source, but is absolutely a reliable source when used through a third party. It certainly seems to me that you're simply trying to flex your admin muscles here and deliberately NOT linking the the actual policy that says social media isn't a reliable source. In fact, I'll go so far as to provide YOU a link about self-published sources and when it's considered acceptable WP:TWITTER. Each requirement is being met appropriately by the band post on their official social media and should be considered a valid source.

Specifically, it is not self-serving, as it is an announcement about a member being removed from the band. It does not make any claims about a third-party. It certainly does not involve claims about unrelated events. There is no doubt that it is authentic, as it is their official social media page. Simply put, the policy explicitly allows for using social media as a reliable source in this situation. --50.66.190.147 (talk) 00:41, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

A combination of WP:SOCIALMEDIA and WP:PRIMARY. We try to stay away from social media and self published accounts as much as possible, and a major member being kicked out is an extraordinary claim. Please remember to assume good faith as well. I have no idea what benefit you’d perceive I’d get from “flexing” my admin abilities on something such this, but I assure you that’s not the case. (Also, nothing I’ve done here requires me to be an admin to begin with - I reverted edits twice. Any editor can do that - what I did today does not require adminship.) Sergecross73 msg me 00:58, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Did you even read what I said. You literally linked to the same thing I did (WP:SOCIALMEDIA and WP:TWITTER link to the same thing). It may or may not be an extraordinary claim, but it came from a reliable source AS PER THE ARTICLE YOU LINKED. I'd strongly suggest you go back and read those links again for a refresher.

"Primary sources are original materials that are close to an event, and are often accounts written by people who are directly involved."

It may be an extraordinary claim, but it's literally coming from the band itself. Do you really need a third party source to parrot back the information from exactly the same place? Moreover, exceptional claims (which they're actually called, but hey, being pedantic) aren't immediately grounds for disqualification, but simply that some extra caution should be exercised. That absolutely can be tempered with the fact that the claim is coming from the rest of the band, and the response from the member being removed from the group absolutely should confirm that it is valid.

Yes, it feels like you're flexing your muscles because you're trying to enforce policy without, as far as I can tell, understanding that policy allows for social media to be used as a primary and reliable source. It doesn't matter to me that any editor can revert changes, what matters is that you're an admin and you're trying to educate about policy without, again, understanding the policy. Assuming good faith needs to go both ways, not simply you unilaterally applying your own interpretation of policies, which feels more like acting in bad faith ("I'm right and you're wrong").

Again, the whole thing here makes no sense. It's not acceptable for a user to read a social media page and report that back as a source, but it's absolutely acceptable for a "reliable source" to use the exact same information (even linking to the very source of said information). That's why the policy DOES allow for using social media as a source. I'm sorry, but I truly believe that you're just plain wrong here, and the policy backs that up. --50.66.190.147 (talk) 01:16, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We still prefer to use third party sources, even if they themselves cite the first party sources. Anyways, this is resolved, and the way you’re not assuming good faith makes me think you’re more interested in angry arguing than actually learning how to edit Wikipedia, so I have no interest arguing with you further. Sergecross73 msg me 01:41, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

People are starting to pick it up. https://www.metalsucks.net/2020/12/14/trapt-just-fired-singer-chris-taylor-brown/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Seblake513 (talk • contribs) 00:25, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yup, that’s on WP:RSMUSIC, so that works. Sergecross73 msg me 00:43, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Chris Taylor Brown not out

@Sergecross73: As I said in my edit summary, at least one of the references (this one) has been updated to reflect that the account "firing" CTB was not an official Trapt account. If y'all would rather leave it in that's fine - I'm not going to make a Parler account to verify that. At the very least, the MetalSucks reference needs to be removed from the article. ThadeusOfNazereth^{Talk to Me!} 03:44, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t know if I’m having a problem with cookies or glitches or what but when I click on the source above I don’t see a revision/update. I had similar hesitations above - I have no idea what the Parler standards are for verification are and requested we wait until third party sources report on it - but once I saw MetalSucks and NME report on it, I stopped opposing it. Sergecross73 msg me 03:53, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Sergecross73, the title of the article has been changed to "Trapt Just Fired Singer Chris Taylor Brown [Update: No They Didn’t]", with the following updated added at the top: "Update, 7:34pm EST: It turns out the Parler account in reference is a fake. This is his real account. We’d credit Chris with the PR stunt, but he isn’t that smart. Onward. "

Like you, I don't know what the Parler standards for verification are, but given that it's Parler, I'd imagine they're virtually non-existent. The NME article hasn't been updated, so while there's confusion it's probably best to leave the article as-is for now. ThadeusOfNazereth^{Talk to Me!} 03:55, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the info. For whatever reason, my phone won’t load the updated version of the article. Weird. I assume it’ll be revealed shortly if it was a stunt or a real thing. On one hand, it seems weird for him to be kicked it - feels like the equivalent of kicking Billy Corgan out of Smashing Pumpkins or Trent Reznor out of Nine Inch Nails. On the other hand, I have no idea what the point of this stunt would be if it was fake either - it’s too far after their album release to expect it to help sales, and there’s too much going on in the world right now to hope it would make any waves outside of some music websites. Sergecross73 msg me 04:06, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The Parler accounts linked are indeed fake. The verification on Parler requires submission of Government issued ID. Do you believe that Trapt, a band, would not have made their official band account verified knowing how simple it truly is? Xfastz28x (talk) 04:00, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I have no idea. The band has spent years berating people through their official social media accounts in ways that completely defy normal musician behavior. I have no idea where their mindset is at. Sergecross73 msg me 04:10, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

While that is true, no arguing that, it must be pretty much common sense to think that if the band could go through the hoops to get their Facebook and Twitter accounts verified that they'd get their "TraptOfficial" account verified? I mean hell, CTB's account is verified, which leads me to believe that the Thadeus dude who replied to my comment earlier hasn't the slightest idea what he is arguing. If you look at the MetalSucks link, they've already admitted that they were duped. I believe that Wikipedia pages need to have accurate information and anyone editing should be unbiased and edit with legitimate information. The information about Trapt firing Chris, the creator of the group, is false. All you have to do is use logic and reasoning when looking at the accounts mentioned in the articles and then the verified CTB account. Let's be better. Xfastz28x (talk) 04:16, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Again, not sure how far “logic” and “reasoning” gets you with how they handle themselves on social media in comparison to social norms, but if someone wants to remove it until we get more clarify that’s fine too. Sergecross73 msg me 04:30, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Now that a couple different sources are reporting neither account in the screenshots were real, I've removed information saying CTB was kicked out of the band. Hopefully this is the end of it. ThadeusOfNazereth^{Talk to Me!} 16:48, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I actually removed it earlier, but it looks like someone else slipped it on again. Sergecross73 msg me 16:56, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

And now there’s sources specifically reporting on the hoax itself too, FYI. Here. Sergecross73 msg me 18:30, 15 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 7 April 2021 (2)

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In November 2020, Spin reported that Facebook had deleted Trapt's page on the grounds of hate speech.[44]

Change to

In November 2020, Spin reported without ever contacting Facebook, that Facebook had deleted Trapt's page on the grounds of hate speech. Brown posted a meme on trapt’s official FB page depicting a silhouette of a man in a Proud Boys shirt, carrying a fallen lady liberty with the caption, “we got you girl.” The day after this post, FB deleted Trapt’s page with no explanation.

Source: Chris Taylor Brown (vocalist of Trapt) CTB81 (talk) 19:31, 7 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not done - See the response to the first one. All the same things apply. Sergecross73 msg me 22:26, 7 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Band members

Aaron Azlant, Manny Terres, and Collin Ddz were never in the band trapt. I should know I founded and sing for the band. CTB81 (talk) 19:08, 7 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Done - None of these had sources, so they should not have been in the article to begin with. Sergecross73 msg me 22:31, 7 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 7 April 2021

This edit request to Trapt has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

I request the following changes to this paragraph... I am the person who is being accused. Chris Taylor Brown

In December 2020, the band's Twitter account was suspended after Brown wrote a series of tweets defending statutory rape.[45]

Change to

In December 2020, the band's Twitter account was suspended the day after Brown wrote a tweet, intended as a joke, saying that he would high five a 15 year old male who slept with his mid 20’s female teacher after another user asked him what he would do if his son was involved in a Teacher/student relationship. He says he regrets making the joke and that he only made it to show the difference between that situation and actual pedophilia, which is defined as an attraction to pre-pubescent bodies, the latter case being much worse in Brown’s opinion. Brown says he never defended statutory rape in his tweets. Brown says the joke only referred to the teenager and his culpability, which the teenager has none. Brown always maintained that anyone who breaks laws should be punished, including any female teachers who take advantage of their students.

Brown also said to an interviewer that if this correction is not made, Wikipedia is knowingly distributing a lie to hundreds of thousands of people, which will be contested. This is very dangerous. CTB81 (talk) 18:53, 7 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Not done - a couple things here:

We cannot just blindly accept the word of anyone makes up a free anonymous account and decides to claim they are Chris Taylor Brown. If you truly are him, this fact should probably be seen as a good thing, honestly, as it would be pretty easy impersonate you and say incorrect things. I mean, how easy would it be for someone to create an account with the letters CTB and claim that Trapt formed in the 1980s? Under your proposal, I'd have to make the change.
Even if you are Brown, please see WP:PRIMARY. You would be a primary source. We could take your word on something simple and uncontentious ("Trapt was formed in (year)") but not something like this, in which you've have a vested interest in creating a narrative that paints you in a more positive light.
If you wish to change the article in situations like this, I'd recommend contacting a third party reliable source and seeing if they would publish your thoughts on the matter. (See WP:RSMUSIC for some common examples.)

Hope you understand. Thanks. Sergecross73 msg me 22:25, 7 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I would say it is wikipedia and music media in general that had a vested interest in creating a narrative that paints me in a more negative light. This is pure spin. NOTHING you are saying in that section is true. It is an opinion of what a few journalist thought I was doing. I did not say any words to defend adult females who are convicted of statutory rape... bottom line. I said they should be judged by a jury of their peers, as they are, and accept the consequences. If you can find ANY other wording that defends statutory rape as something that should not be penalized, then show that. CTB81 (talk) 21:58, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 8 April 2021

This edit request to Trapt has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Wikipedia editors have not responded to my request to delete the sentence “Brown made a series of tweets defending statutory rape” from Trapt Wikipedia. I never defended the actions of a female adult taking advantage of a minor. I will be talking about it with a trapt wikipedia fact or fiction on YouTube tomorrow. Maybe wikipedia can add what I say to trapt Wikipedia to set the record straight.

Thanks, Chris Taylor Brown Vocalist for Trapt CTB81 (talk) 00:50, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Partly done That is incorrect, you were given a response. Anyways, I've softened the wording to "appeared to be", as that is the wording a few reliable sources used, but reliable sources agree that it was this commentary that lead to the social media account being shutdown. Regardless, if what you are referring to is the Loudwire segment "Wikipedia, Fact or Fiction", then yes, that would be a reliable source, so that could be used to add/amend to the section. Let's revisit if/when that is published. Sergecross73 msg me 00:57, 8 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It will be published on trapt YouTube. Not one time did I defend the actions of an adult female breaking a law. I never said that a woman who engages in sexual activity with a minor should not be punished by a jury of her peers. In fact, I tweeted that many times. There is ZERO evidence that I defended statutory rape or even appeared to. What is the sentence that defends statutory rape, sir? Saying I’d High five a kid who was 15 and had a relationship with his adult teacher says nothing about how I would feel about the adult’s side of this equation. It simply means I don’t believe it would cause much trauma compared to 5 year old boys with an older man. It was why i made the joke. To show how vastly different those two situations are. What you are doing is publishing someone’s dishonest spin and opinion of what was said. That’s Wikipedia now. Biased AF... CTB81 (talk) 21:52, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

We go by what reliable, third party sources say. Brown (first party) said he would high five someone who took part in statutory rape. A high five generally represents approval and celebration of something. It's not difficult to see how third party reliable sources saw this positive sentiment for it as a defense of it. And as alread demonstrated, no less than 5 publications reported it the same way. Anyways, please be aware that anything that's only published to the bands YouTube account will still be subject to the restrictions outlined in WP:PRIMARY. Sergecross73 msg me 22:07, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 9 April 2021

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So you guys went with the “appearing.” So Wikipedia is only your opinions of events that occur. It will be found that not once did I defend the actions of an older woman who breaks the law by engaging in a sexual relationship with someone under 18. No matter what kinds of jokes I made about the male teenager in such a situation. The only one who would be punished is the adult woman. I never said that should not be the case.

Sincerely, Chris Taylor Brown CTB81 (talk) 21:46, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps reading WP:VNT or WP:V will help clarify the situation for you. Probably read WP:COI and WP:AUTOBIOGRAPHY too. I'm keeping it short because I'm getting the vibe you're not really reading what I'm telling you anyways. Sergecross73 msg me 22:15, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 9 April 2021 (2)

This edit request to Trapt has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Saying an adult female who has a relationship with a 15 year old male should get less prison time than an older man who does the same with a 15 year old girl is appearing to defend statutory rape? Making a joke about the minor in this case is appearing to defend statutory rape? On purpose you and these publications are trying to make it sound like I am defending banging warped tour groupies who are 15... You are deliberately leaving out the sexes of the situation that was talked about, cause you know that the way you put it makes it sound like i was talking about minor girls too. Can I get your name, sir?

Sincerely, Chris Taylor Brown CTB81 (talk) 22:35, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

This ignores every policy and guideline I've informed you of so far. There are ways to handle this. This is not one of them. Your problem is with all the music and news sites. They're the one reporting this. Wikipedia is merely replicating it. Go complain to Loudwire and Washington Post and all the other websites that reported this. Have them run a retraction or follow up article or something. Everything has to do with sources on Wikipedia. You're not going to get anything added without presenting new sources. That's Wikipedia 101. Sergecross73 msg me 22:49, 9 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

New article on Loudwire about Trapt

New article on Loudwire about Trapt clears up the lie that is currently on display in the last paragraph of Trapt’s “Social media use.” Please correct the record. CTB81 (talk) 17:31, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Done Amended, with direct quotes straight from the Loudwire source I dug up on your behalf. Sergecross73 msg me 17:48, 16 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 13 April 2021

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When you say “appearing to defend statutory rape.” Why are you not including the situation? “between a 25 year old female teacher and a 15 year old male student.” Why are you leaving it open ended, as if I was talking about any kind, instead of this particular situation? CTB81 (talk) 17:59, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I doubt that detail has anything to do with the account being shutdown, so it wasn't mentioned, but some of the sources do mention it, so I'm not opposed to adding that on to the end. Sergecross73 msg me 18:24, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Something like

"In December 2020, the band's Twitter account was suspended after Brown wrote a series of tweets that appeared to be defending statutory rape, where he said he would 'high five' a hypothetical fifteen year old boy who had sex with a 24 year old female teacher."

I believe sources can support this much? Sergecross73 msg me 18:34, 13 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I have shortened the paragraph, i don't think "multiple sources interpreted to be about defending" is encyclopedic or good writing. Imo it works better that way. The part about the rape thing is still mentioned in the following sentence. FMSky (talk) 23:33, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Did you read the sources? That's very directly what many source said. Sergecross73 msg me 23:40, 22 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah but isn't it kind of redundant? Saying he would "high five" someone already implies that he is defending it/is ok with it, so just from a wording standpoint, it can be cut out imo. FMSky (talk) 00:03, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

No, there is no redundancy there. I don't follow. Sergecross73 msg me 00:12, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

It is actually but i dont really care either way, it just sounded smoother. FMSky (talk) 00:16, 23 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

October 2021 source(s)

https://www.metalsucks.net/2021/10/04/trapt-frontman-feuding-with-founder-of-far-right-social-network/ Sergecross73 msg me 18:25, 5 October 2021 (UTC)[reply]