Talk:Trang, Thailand

Requested move 20 April 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved buidhe 00:27, 11 May 2020 (UTC)

---

• Trang, Thailand → Trang
• Trang → Trang (disambiguation)

– The de facto convention for the naming of Thai place articles is that the population centre (city/town) gets the plain name, unless disambiguation is required due to the name being shared with other, different places (not including eponymous provinces/districts). The article was at Trang until 2011, when User:Petebutt moved it to Trang, Trang, which I then moved to Trang, Thailand, since there's a Cambodian commune of the same name. However, the commune seems to be very much less significant, and I now think the city should be treated as the primary topic for the plain name. Also, User:Ans recently moved the article to City of Trang, which I have reverted, as it's not in line with current conventions. Paul_012 (talk) 12:40, 20 April 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. buidhe 19:36, 27 April 2020 (UTC)

• Oppose. On the fifth Google result already I see [1], a reference to Trang Province. To me this is similar to New York. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 16:23, 20 April 2020 (UTC)
  • As I mentioned above, this is already the case for all the 76 Thai provinces, but it has been convention on the English Wikipedia since the beginning to treat the towns/cities as the primary topic over their eponymous province (except in a few cases including Ayutthaya, Sukhothai and Phuket, where the name also has other historical/geographical uses). I am asking to bring this article back in line with the advice at Wikipedia:WikiProject Thailand/Style guide#Places. Your opposition would require overturning the long-standing convention for all the seventy-plus provincial centres in Thailand. --Paul_012 (talk) 07:41, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
    • I see that it is currently labeled as an essay. If you want it to have weight in an RM discussion, open an RfC and propose for it to be elevated to a guideline like WP:USPLACE; otherwise it is nothing more than a WP:LOCALCONSENSUS. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 12:26, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
• Support. As this is the same standard as Krabi --Ans (talk) 14:47, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
• Support. This does seem to be consistent with other naming practice. Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 18:25, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose. We go with the entity that has more significance, which sometimes is the province/state, sometimes is the city, and sometimes neither. This leads to Sao Paolo being about the city while Colima is about the state, and here currently neither gets primary topic. I see nothing that suggests that Trang City has close to the level of long-term educational significance that its containing province has; it has less than 10% of the population, a far cry from (say) New York City (about half of New York State) or, say, Chiang Mai, which has about 3/4 of its province's population. Red Slash 21:24, 21 April 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose per traffic. If the naming essay is out of alignment, the naming essay should be updated. That does not mean that all 76 provinces would need to be moved; they can be incrementally examined and if needed moved as they come up. -- JHunterJ (talk) 17:54, 27 April 2020 (UTC)
• Oppose – the primarytopic argument is weak, per JHunterJ and Red Slash. Disambiguation is good. Dicklyon (talk) 04:07, 7 May 2020 (UTC)

---

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Disambiguation

According to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names)#Disambiguation,

1. If using the country name would still lead to ambiguity, use the name of a smaller administrative division (such as a state or province) instead.
2. Generic parenthetical disambiguating tags as used for most Wikipedia articles are used only occasionally for geographic names (as in Wolin (town), where no regional tag would be sufficient to distinguish the town from the island of Wolin).

1. According to the above 1st rule, using the country name like "Trang, Thailand" is still lead to ambituity, since it could refer to,
   1. Trang province in Thailand
   2. Trang district in Thailand
   3. Trang city in Thailand
   • so use the name of a smaller administrative like "Trang, Trang".
2. However, "Trang, Trang" is still lead to ambiguity, since it chould refer to,
   1. Trang district in Trang province
   2. Trang city in Trang province
   • (Though there's no city named Trang in Trang province, using "Trang, Trang" is still lead to confusion to reader. They may not realize that this is an disambiguation, they chould think of huh!!!, what!!!, what does "Trang, Trang" mean? "Trang province, Trang province"? Or "Trang district, Trang district"? Why doubling it?)
   • so use the 2nd rule, generic parenthetical disambiguating tag, like "Trang (city)"

Also see case study from New York, New York,

1. Talk:New York City/Archive 2 (title of article)
2. Talk:New York City/Archive 5#Requested move

--Ans (talk) 19:26, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

In view of the above failed RM, I've been thinking to propose a mass rename of Thai provincial centres (the smaller ones first) to Name (town), instead of the current convention. Trang is a city rather than a town, so I won't touch it just yet, but it should offer some guidance as to what the community thinks. --Paul_012 (talk) 14:52, 26 September 2020 (UTC)