Talk:Touro University (New York)

Some Edits I Would Like to Suggest

The formal name of Touro College is The Touro College and University System--so while even though Touro's social media sites call themselves just Touro College, the school has a bunch of satellite schools around the country and world, etc. What's the best way for me to expand upon this article in an appropriate way? I can make edits with third party citations, sure, but when it comes to essential things like the proper name of the college/university, how to I do that -- maybe something like "Touro College, formally known as The Touro College and University System, is a private college"--something like that? Anyway, thanks in advance! --Brnobaud (talk) 16:10, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Hi, new comments go at the end of the Talk page (you can just click the + in the banner/ribbon at the top). I think what you are referring to is a different entity, which started off as just this one Touro school and then expanded, using that name and this college as the flagship. As such, this article seems to exclusively be about the singular school in New York, not the parent company. JesseRafe (talk) 16:18, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Critique of article

What are some of the negatives of this school?

This article reads like an advertisement.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.55.122.99 (talk) 23:14, 16 June 2009 (UTC) 

Factual Updates

I work for Rubenstein and Touro is a client of ours. To mitigate any conflict of interest, I only corrected content that was factually inaccurate: the name of the Dean was misspelled and there were inaccuracies in the History section. If there are any questions/concerns to my actions, please discuss on my talk page. Brycetom (talk) 15:49, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Neutrality

This article reads as if it were copied directly from Touro's catalog. (As a matter of fact, a vast swath was copied from here. I've fixed that.) A major cleanup is required. WikiDan61^ChatMe!_ReadMe!! 16:42, 27 June 2012 (UTC)

Controversy?

The story in this section seems more like a scandal than a controversy. Would anyone object to renaming this section to something more specific, given that is is one specific incident being described? 140.254.70.33 (talk) 15:29, 10 July 2014 (UTC)

Do you have something specific in mind? I agree that controversy may not be the best title for that section. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 01:30, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed

Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: http://www.touro.edu/assessment/institutional/instMGO.pdf, http://web.archive.org/web/20041211225329/http://www.touro.edu/general/about.asp, https://www.touro.edu/departments/tc-press/about/ and https://tourocom.touro.edu/news--events/press-releases/middletown-grand-opening-9414.php. Copied or closely paraphrased material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.)

For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, and, if allowed under fair use, may copy sentences and phrases, provided they are included in quotation marks and referenced properly. The material may also be rewritten, providing it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Therefore, such paraphrased portions must provide their source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 14:13, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

I've just removed yet more stuff copy-pasted from the website of the college – his time from https://www.touro.edu/about/our-history/. Please do not copy material from that website into Wikipedia. Thank you, Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 11:28, 14 November 2017 (UTC)

And yet again, this time from http://time.com/money/4853047/touro-college-value-students-beat-odds/ and https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/touro-college-10142. This has to stop, so I'll be requesting a block if there's any more of it. JesseRafe, I'm afraid I've swept away some of your edits; as far as I can see they were only to material that has now been removed; but sorry anyway. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 13:55, 15 April 2018 (UTC)

Please Guide Me on How to Not Make Another Error

I am going to go through everything I have and everything I know about Touro College and I will rewrite everything and not just change words or anything like that. But, that said, what I really want to change and add to this page are things like updated student numbers, historical perspecting, founding fathers, a history, more of an overview, what the student population is more made up of, and all that. I am sorry if what I added was too close to the source content. I asked a friend for help on this and he told me that, like all plagiarism, you can't just move a few words around and make it your own. So, I will be working on writing what I would like added to the page today. How best do I add it? Shall I add it somewhere else? Like a draft page, and then share it here with you all? I am not very keen on getting blocked by the patient and generous Justlettersandnumbers. Any hints and advice and guidance on this page? I am sorry if I've been making so many mistakes. Mea culpa. Brnobaud (talk) 13:25, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

You can make a draft on your user page if you want someone to take a look at it, here's some instructions Help:Userspace draft if you choose to do that. If you want to edit directly here, then don't copy and paste. Ever. If you copy and paste and change a few words, it still won't pass copyvio rules, same as plagiarism in school. Open the history up in another window from the browser Wikipedia is on and a rewrite it yourself. Obviously things like numbers and the names of the administrators can be updated and phrased exactly like what the source material says, but not the prose itself. JesseRafe (talk) 13:58, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

No more plaigerism or any copy-and-paste at all, JesseRafe, but I am getting really frustrated because if you check that link, and scroll down, you'll see the 45% -- but that's neither here nor there, you're just not even giving me any small wins! :) Brnobaud (talk) 19:43, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Brnobaud, if you look at the edit summary I left when removing the graduation rate you had inserted you will see my reason for removing it: The sentence was about the four-year graduation rate, but you removed the source for that and placed an incorrect figure there (the figure you found is – unless I have misread the source – the six-year or "150% of normal" graduation rate).

I'm relieved to hear there's not going to be any more copyright violation – the advice from JesseRafe is spot-on. If at any time you're not sure whether stuff you have written is too close to the source, feel free to ping me.

If you have some personal or professional connection to the college you should disclose it; disclosure is obligatory if you edit as part of your paid employment or for any financial reward – I've left some links in the section below. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:07, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Thanks for the advice. This is a challenge. I've never stepped foot on the Touro campus, Justlettersandnumbers (talk). I just don't know what to do. Even when I ask for help, I make things worse. So, all I can do now is do as you say, which is to put together what I think should be a page and then have you decide, in all your wisdom (not sarcastic, I promise, I saw you Wikipedia bona fides), whether it's germane to the page or not. I feel less secure now after reaching out than I did before. Now I feel completley painted into the corner. But, I get it. Better safe than sorry. Obstructionism is safer than promiscuity. Like I said, JesseRafe (talk), you are basically the gatekeeper of this page and the maker of the Touro College and University System so I am out of my depth here. Brnobaud (talk) 13:22, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

I'm confused, it appears you haven't done what was suggested above, unless I'm missing something, which is to rewrite sections you want to add in your own words, rather than copying and pasting. The last edit was of a interpretation of fact, nothing to do with copyright vios. Please try again if the issue is that important to you, we are trying not to "make things worse", but better. A page with nothing on it is better than one with copyright violations, as that is against the law, other things are just against Wikipedaia's, say, style guidelines or suggestions. As I said on your Talk, I'm not the gatekeeper and I only made the TCUS page, I believe, based on your insight that one page was covering two topics. There are a lot of ways you can contribute to the encyclopedia without feeling painted into a corner, maybe explore some other subject matter areas? JesseRafe (talk) 14:21, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

Conflict of interest

At least one major contributor to this article appears to have a close personal or professional connection to the topic, and thus to have a conflict of interest. Conflict-of-interest editors are strongly discouraged from editing the article directly, but are always welcome to propose changes on the talk page (i.e., here). You can attract the attention of other editors by putting {{request edit}} (exactly so, with the curly parentheses) at the beginning of your request, or by clicking the link on the lowest yellow notice above. Requests that are not supported by independent reliable sources are unlikely to be accepted.

Please also note that our Terms of Use state that "you must disclose your employer, client, and affiliation with respect to any contribution for which you receive, or expect to receive, compensation." An editor who contributes as part of his or her paid employment is required to disclose that fact. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:07, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Edit Guidelines Requested

The reason I want to contribute to the discussion about this page is that there are two distinct parts to the Touro College family. The original school and all other later schools in New York are only called Touro College. They are a part of the larger Touro College and University System. But that came later when they acquired schools outside New York State and added several Universities. The New York schools are called just Touro College. Should this distinction be made on the TCUS page? And then the TC page removed? Please advise. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sharling (talk • contribs) 22:19, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

I think I understand what you're asking, though I don't think I understand why. Is your contention that one of these pages should be deleted? Why not help and make it more clear how TC and TCUS should be separate, and detail that information on the relevant page(s)? Thanks! JesseRafe (talk) 22:29, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Thanks, that is what I think should be done but there has been so much back and forth about it I got confused. I wiill give that a shot. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sharling (talk • contribs) 22:42, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Changes to this page are being blocked

I've been trying to make edits and additions to this page, unsuccessfully. All my changes are reverted, and I'm now getting harassing and threatening messages. As is made clear in the history on this talk page, two editors, JesseRafe and Justlettersandnumbers, are monitoring this page and blocking people from editing it. I'm not sure what their motivation is, but it is not appropriate or constructive.

As one of them said in a note to me, "everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to Wikipedia." When I did that, however, I was told I "seemed to act as if you were the owner of the page." I was also told I had a clear conflict of interest and threatened with being blocked.

Lillibetsy (talk) 14:01, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

Lillibetsy, please see Wikipedia:Conflict of interest/Noticeboard#Touro College. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 14:55, 28 June 2019 (UTC)

To the users who keep flagging this article with maintenance templates

Here's an idea: how about being helpful and making corrections or additions as you see fit, so that the tag can be taken down? Wikipedia is owned by everyone, therefore all editors have a stake in making it the best it can be. Instead of flagging the page and reverting changes, how about using your extensive knowledge of Wiki protocol to improve it? Not sure what the point is of continually flagging this page, rather than addressing the perceived issues. No one is benefitting from this. Please put your efforts toward being constructive! Lillibetsy (talk) 14:51, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

That's wonderful advice, please consider taking it. JesseRafe (talk) 14:54, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Every time I have made corrections and additions to try and bring the page up to standards so the tag can be removed, I'm told I have a conflict of interest (unfounded) and accused of plagiarism (ie: "this is copied from somewhere but I can't find where"--that's because I wrote it). From my standpoint, the flag should be taken down. There is sufficient context for those unfamiliar with the subject, the citations are thorough, and there is no close connection/COI. You and others are the ones flagging it. If you have a problem with it, please fix it. I have tried. Lillibetsy (talk) 17:51, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

One problem is there are not strong sources about the school or the system, or enough material the distinguish the two. This article was pared down to solely be about the Touro College with that name and a separate article was written about the University System upon request. It is hard to find sufficient information to make needed improvements on both subject areas. The separate articles on the other affiliated schools are even worse. As to the COI, there have been MANY instances of COI editors editing on this page in the past. The template is backward looking, it describes the article as it exists currently. COI editors have edited it. That's a statement of fact. The puffery and weasel words can be removed, but the COI edits still happened. When a new editor suddenly shows up and one of the first things they do is remove the COI tag, that immediately is good cause to suspect that person has COI motivations. You're continued insistence and accusations is only solidifying the claim against you, not to mention you seem to have no interest in any other article on the encyclopedia, which suggests your interest is actually in Touro College, not improving Wikipedia, aka a conflict of interest. Like I said a few hours ago, "please put your efforts toward being constructive" is wonderful advice and I encourage you to heed those sage words. JesseRafe (talk) 18:15, 2 July 2019 (UTC)

Whitewashing?

I note a brand new user, whose name matches with the institution in a Google search but states she is not connected, is removing negative content such as the bribery scandal. I'm not suggesting sockpuppetry (WP:SOCK). Ifnord (talk) 20:33, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

guidestar.org

I don't see how this can possibly be an independent reliable source – it seems to be just a company profile hosted on a different url: "Add a problem overview to your profile" ... "Our programs" ... "SOURCE: Self-reported by organization". I propose removing it; any objection? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 11:34, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 May 2020

Add to the list of Affiliates after: TUI University,

• Moscow Touro University, Russia, Moscow https://touro.ru/ Anna Obsokova (talk) 15:48, 18 May 2020 (UTC)

 Not done: Should only list notable (i.e. which have a WP page) institutions RandomCanadian (talk | contribs) 19:08, 18 May 2020 (UTC)