Talk:Touring car racing

BTCC section

For the BTCC section I've excised these paragraphs as they contain factual errors, POV theories to try and explain why the BTCC may not be as popular worldwide as it once was, and a curious Honda/Thompson emphasis. It's now much more concise, and any more info needed ought to be on the BTCC page itself.

At one point the BTCC was considered one of the most important touring car championship in the world. Millions of people worldwide watched Renault clinch the 1996 championship with their Laguna. Support and enthusiasm for the series has dropped dramatically since the 2000 championship which was contested only by Honda, Ford and Vauxhall. The previous season had seen nine manufacturers vying for trophies. Honda was expected to walk the 2000 season yet somehow managed to barely scrape second place ahead of Vauxhall.

It is interesting to note that the decline of this series' popularity coincided with the replacement - by virtually all teams still in the Championship - of saloon cars, for which the BTCC has always been famous, such as the Peugeot 406 and Honda Accord - with smaller "hot hatches" such as the Peugeot 306 and Honda Civic-R.

In its 1990s heyday, the cars were larger and much more powerful, presumably why the series was so much more popular back then.

Teams normally run two cars. In 1999, Honda ran three Accords at certain events, and in 2001 a lone privateer Honda Civic-R competed with the few prestigious teams remaining. In previous years Honda has enjoyed success with its Accords. Yorkshireman James Thompson nearly clinched the title several years in succession, being let down by the most outrageous bad fortune (and several needlessly aggressive manouevres which saw him disqualified from more than one podium finish).

Heycos 15:29, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

31 650+ hp

The article for V8 Supercars, used to read like " grid consists of 31 650+ hp..." This read like the cars have 31,650 hp, so I changed it to "grid consists of thirty-one cars with 650+hp..." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.68.17.215 (talk) 17:29, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

United States Touring Cars

We have a touring car league. It's called the Sports Car Club of America Speed World Challenge Touring Car Championship (Speed Touring Cars for short). 67.188.172.165 18:22, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Proposed merger of Production car racing into this article

The Production car racing stub could easily be merged into this article, with a specific section if necessary. They are very closely interrelated. Adrian M. H. 00:45, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't support this merger - what about something like FIA GT4, which is essentially production racing for sports cars? That belongs in Sports Car racing. The Production Car Racing article should link to both touring car and sports car racing articles, as category of 'production car racing' encompasses varieties of both branches of the sport. Pete Fenelon 06:27, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

I think you mean GT3. All GT classes should be covered by an article on GT racing, spun off from the article on sports car racing, and I am in the process of writing this. Adrian M. H. 13:15, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

No, I mean GT4. GT4 supports even fewer modifications than GT3. [1] Pete Fenelon 20:13, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

My assertion still applies. Adrian M. H. 20:17, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

To point out, what about Group N and its US term, showroom stock; would these count as touring car racing. If these are merged, then a section would needed to explain the difference between the two. On the other hand, what would make the merge complicated is that one-make racing can be seen as production car racing. Willirennen 16:07, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

There's an interesting point here. Originally all racing cars were production cars. Over time cars used in competition became increasingly radical compared to road registerable vehicles. This schism, which occured in the 1910's-1920s became emphasised with the terms Racing cars and Sports cars. Racing cars evolved into the open wheel creations of today, while Sports cars became the production based cars.

Over time Sports cars used in competition became increasingly radical compared to road registerable vehicles. This schism, which occured roughly in the 1950's-1960's became emphasised with the terms Sports cars and Touring cars. Sports cars evolved into the specialised closed wheel prototypes of Le Mans that we know today, with GT's splitting off from Sports cars in the 1980's-1990's, while Touring cars became the production based cars.

Over time Touring cars used in competition became increasingly radical compared to road registerable vehicles. This schism, which occured roughly in the 1990's-2000's became emphasised with the terms Touring cars and Production cars. Touring cars evolved into the specialised silouhette racers of NASCAR, DTM, Super2000 and V8 Supercar that we know today, while Production cars became the production based cars.

So no, I reject completely the merger idea. --Falcadore (talk) 07:21, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Your statements explained a lot more than the Wikipedia articles for touring car, grand tourer and, sports car. Besides, in their current states, the touring car article and touring car racing article deal with two totally different kind of cars which happen to have the same name. I left some related questions here George Rodney Maruri Game (talk) 00:04, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

NASCAR/Touring Car

The introductory chapter is a little misleading. In this, it shares some similarity with the American stock car racing (governed by NASCAR); however, touring cars are actually derived from production cars while NASCAR vehicles are custom built (although in the early days of NASCAR, stock cars were in fact built from production cars, much like current day touring cars.) The two largest touring car series clash with this definition. DTM utilises custom built rather than production derived vehicles, and V8Supercar share very little with road going versions, the Holden Commodores are actually cut and half and shortened amongst the many modifications. Really it needs to be amended to include NASCAR as a touring car series, the difference between Touring Car and Stock Car is essentially semantics. --Falcadore (talk) 08:38, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I made a couple of small changes that maybe differentiate a little better - although I do agree with you to a certain extent. --Biggiespell2 (talk) 14:29, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

FIA GT Championship

Where is the FIA GT Championship? Yosef1987 (talk) 21:22, 22 September 2008 (UTC)

Well, if you follow the link in the first line of the article it directs you to Sports car racing. --Falcadore (talk) 02:48, 23 September 2008 (UTC)

USA

Should there be mention of "stock car racing" in North America? from heavily modified "stock" cars to purpose built cars that only have the silhouette of a "stock" car... 70.29.208.129 (talk) 08:43, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree. Also , any differences should be clearly stated.Vinay84 (talk) 04:59, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

No, because they have their own article at Stock car racing, and small mention at Silhouette racing car. --Falcadore (talk) 07:02, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

stock car & sports car

This article compares touring car and sports car racing, but it is missing comparison with Stock car racing. And while lower level sports cars are based on sports cars, upper level sports car racing are not based on sports cars found on the road, they are cleansheet designs, like in the former IMSA GTP series, or the WSC series. 70.24.248.211 (talk) 14:10, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

No reason you can't write it, but it should be noted you are confusing GT racing with "lower level sports car racing". It would however not be an easy comparison to write and touring car, stock car and even silouhette cars are almost interchangeable with the difference being cultural as much as anything else. Unless you mean to compare only with NASCAR. --Falcadore (talk) 21:35, 15 April 2012 (UTC)

Formula One?

Why is the mention of formula one so prominent in the lede? Seems odd to me. 2601:C6:4101:81B0:5896:48FC:AA8C:4BF0 (talk) 14:41, 28 March 2020 (UTC)

Cars involved, terminology and speed.

One of the sections reads "... 'sports cars' (also known as GT cars).."

And just one paragraph below: "Touring cars are usually based upon family cars (such as hatchbacks, sedans or estates), while GT racing cars are based upon powerful sports cars, such as Ferraris or Lamborghinis (and are thus usually coupés)..."

So, are GTs the same as sports cars or, are they "based" on sports cars?

I think all modern touring race competitions involve cars that are not identical to their stock counterparts. So, I think that a GT car must be some kind of modified sports car (unless there are stock GT cars, too).

Additionally, at the introduction it reads that these "cars do not move as fast as those in formula or sports car races". Do they modify sports cars to make them move slower? Do race regulations enforce speed lowering modifications on purpose or coincidentally only?

Besides, this article does not make clear if this kind of races involve touring cars or GT cars or both whether together or in separate categories (series?).

George Rodney Maruri Game (talk) 21:25, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

I've just removed the "Differences between touring cars and sports cars" section. There are differences between:

• Touring car: these days commonly a passenger car with minimum 4 seats, also has to be series production models for FIA who has rules and regulations for them
• Grand Touring car: a car for travelling across large distances in comfort, has to be production but not series, also has FIA rules and regs.
• Sports car: A car for sports, does not have to have usual comforts for road travel or provide for passengers, usually no production requirement, also FIA.
• Stock car: Not an FIA endorsed term but I'm not sure if whoever does uses the term touring car.

The section was mostly nonsense but rather than improve it, it is not necessary here. The vehicles should be better explained on touring car, grand tourer, sports car etc, and the racing here, sports car racing etc. Any confusion, if it exists, between sports car and grand touring car racing definitely doesn't belong here. Rally Wonk (talk) 23:11, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Improvement required

"Touring car racing started in the mid twentieth century as a long-format style of competition that took place on public roads between numerous towns. The cars were crewed by a driver and, because of their unreliability, a mechanic who carried tools and spares. The legacy of these beginnings can still be seen in modern touring and GT cars - the driver sits offset from the centreline of the car and there is space for a second seat (although they are rarely fitted any more)."

Rubbish. Touring cars were being raced at the turn of the century, then on the autodromes as they were being invented/built. "The driver sits offset from the centreline" because they are using touring or grand touring based production cars, not race cars. Rally Wonk (talk) 22:47, 1 September 2023 (UTC)