Talk:Tour of Flanders (men)

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Improper move

The article was moved (technical term on Wikipedia that practically means 'renamed') from 'Tour of Flanders' to 'Ronde van Vlaanderen'. The opening sentence now starts as: "The Ronde van Vlaanderen (English: Tour of Flanders)". This is not according to Wikipedia guidelines, the article should have its English name whenever that name is more common for speakers of English than the native name is to them. In this case, 82,000 'Tour of Flanders' Google hits against 36,000 for the native name – and the latter often hitting a secondary mentioning like "The Tour of Flanders (De Ronde Van Vlaanderen) 2006" – in English language pages prove the only correct title for the English language Wikipedia to be 'Tour of Flanders'. So, Mk3severo, please move the article back and invert its opening sentence; then replace 'Ronde van Vlaanderen' with 'Tour of Flanders', as it stood before, in all the articles that link to this article. I really feel sorry for your time (I know how it feels), but the specific Wikipedia:Naming conventions guideline is quite clear on this matter. — SomeHuman 6 Dec 2006 21:30 (UTC)

Thanks for your input here. The move came about due to a few reasons so I'll first explain them and why some moving and renaming was necessary. WikiProject Cycling has an item on its to-do list to cleanup and consolidate racing related pages with a particular emphasis on the languages and spellings used for races. This highlighted some evident confusion, for example the Tour of Flanders main page used the English spelling, whereas the pages for the 2005 and 2006 editions were titled in the native language. Likewise, both names were used through biographical articles, indeed some articles used both names without alluding to that it is the same race. This situation was unacceptable as it caused confusion to casual readers, especially those who know little about cycling. For this reason, I felt changes were necessary. The Ronde van Vlaanderen/Tour of Flanders was not the worst at this: for the Vuelta al País Vasco, I counted eight different forms used.

The titles Ronde van Vlaanderen and Tour of Flanders are both used in English, at least the UK English with which I am familiar. Searching for the exact term, in the English language with the caveat of excluding results which include the term Wikipedia, the Tour of Flanders gives 68,000 results of which 499 of the first 1000 are unique, and the Ronde van Vlaanderen gives 35,300 results of which 342 of the first 1000 are unique. Whilst as you mention the latter contain the native term as a secondary one, the former contains many that are based upon Wikipedia. As per the example given at Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English)#Borderline cases, I decided that such a result was not decisive, so intended to use judgement. Two reliable and independent sources, namely [1] and [2], both refer to the race as the Ronde van Vlaanderen. As such, I believe that a user would find the article title of Ronde van Vlaanderen least surprising and so I chose to go with that name.

These are my reasons, which I maintain. Mk3severo 00:19, 7 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What about Tour of Flanders for Women then, should it be moved also? feydey (talk) 20:22, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

No. It works perfectly now. Severo got it right. It is a perfect catch-all.

The Ronde uses the correct name, and has a headline mention of both 'Women' and 'Tour of Flanders'. Perfect for casual Google surfers like me.

The Womens Tour of Flanders uses a common name and has a headline mention of 'Men' and 'Ronde VV'. Perfect for casual Google surfers like me.

Autodidactyl (talk) 09:45, 23 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Cultural Memorabilia

I have an Oude Kwaremont beer bottle which, according to Mario De Clercq's brother in law (random meeting), is brewed specifically in time for the race. Would a photograph of the bottle be appropriate or does that class as trivia!? Thaf (talk) 12:33, 27 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be good (with an attempt to {{fact|... source the info). Les Woodland has already written about the enormous cultural significance, and this may emphasise it. It may also inspire him to add other stuff. Autodidactyl (talk) 12:53, 27 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'ld rather not have it, except when it has been discussed at length in mainstream media. People cashing in on the popularity of events is a normal thing, but we should not give any significance to the beer when it has none in reality (it may be good, don't get me wrong, but it has no importance). Dobbel Palm is a well-known Christmas beer in Flanders; the Rondebier is not well-known and is in my opinion rather trivial. Fram (talk) 13:03, 27 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Request to move Ronde van Vlaanderen to Tour of Flanders

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was page renamed —harej (talk) (cool!) 18:36, 14 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ronde van Vlaanderen → Tour of Flanders — The Dutch title "Ronde van Vlaanderen" is wrong, apply the rule Wikipedia:Naming_conventions#Use_English_words. Compare the exact title of the woman's race (Tour_of_Flanders_for_Women). Thanks --Caceo (talk) 11:41, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose — I don't think it's so clear cut. Indicitive results from Google ("term in quotes", excluding "wikipedia", in English language) give "ronde van vlaanderen": 34,400, of which 608 of the first 1000 are unique and "tour of flanders": 48,600 of which 650 of the first 1000 are unique. There is clear divided usage in English language sources. As roughly even usage, the article should be at the most recent stable name i.e. not moved. Severo^TC 12:06, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please read en:Wikipedia:Naming_conventions#Use_English_words: "... Name your pages in English... unless the native form is more commonly recognized by readers than the English form". What the title more commonly recognized by english readers, the english one or the dutch one ? (note: google queries are not mentioned in the rule) --Caceo (talk) 12:41, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sometimes the native name is more commonly recognized than the English form (see Tour de France). This isn't the case here, however. Jafeluv (talk) 12:49, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Looking at the sources used in the article, "Tour of Flanders" seems to be by far the most common English name, followed by "Tour de Flanders" and "Ronde van Vlaanderen". Even the official site uses the proposed title. Jafeluv (talk) 12:45, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Support. There is a redirect for the other one anyway, so this is not terribly important. However, looking at the more important sources like those in Google News, the vast majority of the English language sources use "Tour of Flanders"(1850 vs. 134. In the books, it's equally clear: 247 vs. 38. In reliable sources in English, the English name is used much more frequently. Fram (talk) 12:56, 7 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Tour of Flanders route

For the past few weeks I have worked on this article, as one of my first really elaborate contributions, getting slightly out of hand and taking me a lot more time than I anticipated. I realise some sections need additional or better referencing, but I will work on it. Any help, support, suggestions or others thoughts are welcome naturally.

One thing this article still misses, is an image or map of the Tour of Flanders route. As I could not find one, I put in a picture of Bruges with the course description, which is pretty but not exceptionally relevant. If anyone could help out, that would be wonderful. Thanks. Dr.robin (talk) 15:57, 8 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]