Talk:Tom Schweich

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Part Jewish ancestry

The source here does not support the assertion that Schweich was "of part Jewish ancestry". I've removed that unsourced assertion. According to this source Schweich was not Jewish. ("Greitens who, unlike Schweich, is Jewish, has already raised…") Bus stop (talk) 22:35, 30 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This is also complicated by the fact that the term Jewish can refer to ancestry, nationality, culture and/or religion. It is entirely possible to have Jewish ancestry and to be an Episcopalian (and hence not of the Jewish faith). Since it is unclear which of these Greitens is, it is equally unclear what the writer was asserting that Schweich was not. Note that the article you cited states that Schweich was "an Episcopalian whose paternal grandfather was Jewish" -- which means, if correct, that he was indeed "of part Jewish ancestry." That does not mean, nor did the text you removed state, that he identified as a Jew or practiced the Jewish faith. Dwpaul ^Talk 02:37, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Also note, however, that among orthodox Jews the status of the offspring of a mixed marriage is determined matrilineally. Since the writer does not specify the background of his paternal grandmother, his maternal grandparents or his mother, we can probably assume they were not Jewish. His paternal grandfather's Jewishness would not have been enough for Schweich to be regarded by some as a Jew, even if he had wanted to be. Dwpaul ^Talk 02:54, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Since both the original ABCNews ref (now archived here) and the ref you supplied confirm that Schweich had Jewish ancestry, I am going to restore the text you removed and add the ref that you supplied. Dwpaul ^Talk 03:14, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

This source is telling us: "Hancock later said he might have occasionally let slip to various important donors that Schweich — an Episcopalian whose paternal grandfather was Jewish — was himself Jewish, something he believed to be true." That source is telling that Schweich's "paternal grandfather was Jewish". Bus stop (talk) 04:09, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Correct, which means that the statement "[Schweich] was of part Jewish ancestry" is true and correct. Dwpaul ^Talk 04:12, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Please do not remove the text in question while we are discussing it here. That is, if nothing else, bad form. Dwpaul ^Talk 04:18, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

If we know what his Jewish connection is, which we do, we should state it explicitly. There is no need for the more vague language "of Jewish ancestry". Bus stop (talk) 04:23, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The primary reason I reverted your edit, aside from the fact I felt it was unnecessary, is that saying "His paternal grandfather was Jewish. He attended an Episcopalian church" is simply a bad construction, suggesting as it does that the Jewish grandfather attended the Episcopalian church. The point of Schweich, and others, bringing up his grandfather was to acknowledge that he had Jewish ancestry, but that he neither identified as a Jew nor attended a synagogue, in fact that he attended an Episcopalian church. Simply mentioning that he had a grandfather that was Jewish, and later what church Schweich attended, seems to distort the message that both Schweich and the reporters were trying to convey. They sound rather like two disconnected pieces of trivia, when they are intimately linked aspects of the narrative in this case. All three of the cited sources mention his Episcopalianism and his Jewish ancestry in the same sentence, and so should we. Dwpaul ^Talk 04:30, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

"Please do not remove the text in question"? You have done so twice—here and here. Bus stop (talk) 04:52, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

In the first case, I removed nothing; I restored the text you had earlier removed, and added additional references. In the second case, I reverted your subsequent edit, and then came here and asked you to leave it alone while we discussed the text that had been restored. Would you care to comment on my point above? Dwpaul ^Talk 04:56, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The text of the sentence in question has been amended to read "His paternal grandfather was Jewish, but Schweich attended an Episcopal church." This addresses both of our concerns. Dwpaul ^Talk 14:04, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

All reliable sources that address the question at all say that Schweich was not Jewish. This article should be concerned with this. Many sources support an allegation that a whisper campaign could have been a contributory factor leading to the suicide of Schweich. The allegations of that campaign include that Schweich was Jewish. John Hancock, chairman of the Missouri Republican Party, denies such a whisper campaign transpired. By way of providing background our article should include that Schweich was in fact not Jewish. There is no shortage of sources supporting that. Bus stop (talk) 23:55, 31 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]