Talk:Toll roads in Great Britain

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Summaries of this article appear in Roads in the United Kingdom and Motoring taxation in the United Kingdom.

United Kingdom or England?

I can see very little reference here to toll roads outside of England. Can someone add to it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richardeast (talk • contribs) 18:36, 22 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Page Moved, Scotland page merged in, and I started a Wales section as well.. Ronhjones ^(Talk) 01:27, 17 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Toll roads in England → Toll roads in the United Kingdom — This page has (I think) been moved from its former title without discussion. Some one has created a new page with the target name, so that I cannot nove it back. I would not oppose the title becomg Toll roads in Great Britain, but separating England and Wales (where the main history or the subject is much the same) is ridiculous. The difference is that a new system was created in Wales in reaction to the Rebecca riots. This is a general article covering a number of different topics, linking more detailed main articles; there is thus no reason why this article should not cover the whole of GB, or even the whole of the pre-1922 UK. ~~As far as I can make out there is nothing to say about Scotland except soemthing brief about the Skye Bridge.~~ Having looked at the external link on the Scotland page, it looks as if I am wrong and that Scotland did have turnpikes, but probably not very different from the English system, but I still believe we need the move requested. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:33, 3 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there - simple solution: move the article to 'Toll roads in England and Wales'. Cheers Fishiehelper2 (talk) 16:34, 3 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Agree as per nom--Brunnian (talk) 07:58, 4 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Support As the article also briefly discusses toll roads in Scotland and Wales, then Toll roads in the United Kingdom is the most appropriate term. Skinsmoke (talk) 23:06, 6 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment (from nom) Fishiehelper2 and I have had discussions on our respective talk pages. The Scotland page brought up a website that appears to indicate that there were some turnpike roads in Scotland, though other material on that sounded rather too like the English parish organisation for highway repairs for me to be sure it is really a WP:RS. The question is whetehr the article should cover England and Wales (as he suggests), or Great Britain (with Scotland too). Since during part of the turnpike era, Ireland was part of UK (of GB & Ireland), restoration to my suggested target might be appropriate. The question is really one of what the scope of the aritcle should be: if Scotland is to be included, Toll roads in Great Britain would be appropriate; if not, Toll roads in England and Wales. Peterkingiron (talk) 15:56, 11 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Except that this is not Turnpikes in..., it is Toll roads in.... That includes modern toll roads, as well as historical examples. Until recently, Scotland had four toll roads that I am aware of, all bridges: the Skye Bridge, Erskine Bridge, Forth Road Bridge and Tay Road Bridge. All of these would be appropriate for mention. It would be silly to have separate pages for Toll roads in Scotland, Toll roads in Wales and Toll roads in England, when they can all be dealt with easily, and without unnecessary duplication, under Toll roads in the United Kingdom. Skinsmoke (talk) 17:19, 11 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Just noticed there is a stub at Toll roads in Scotland. This would be better merged into the article. Skinsmoke (talk) 17:21, 11 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This article needs serious fixing!!!

This article is need of serious fixing - if the title is to be "Toll roads in the United Kingdom", I expect to read about 'toll roads in the United Kingdom' and not about the history of toll roads before the United Kingdom was created. Material that is prior to the scope of this article should be removed. I will do it myself in a few days unless anyone else wishes to fix it first. Cheers Fishiehelper2 (talk) 09:34, 17 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Following comments from the above editor, both here and on my talk page, it is plain that the move caused problems as to regard the date of the conception of the "United Kingdom", and the Article spanning over that date. Looking back at the Move arguments, it is obvious that a change of name to "Toll roads in Great Britain" (as was suggested as a possible alternative) would eliminate such problems, as Great Britain is a fixed entity. I have therefore moved that page again. Hopefully this will resolve all editor's concerns. The only minor downside could be that it will not include Northern Ireland - I don't know if there are any toll roads there. However should it be necessary to add them, then it could be done as "Toll roads in the British Isles", and roll in Eire as well. Ronhjones ^(Talk) 19:24, 19 April 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article title and scope

I am happy with the outcome of the various moves. Great Britain strictly refers to an island, comprising England, Scotland and Wales, so that the objection to referring to UK before it existed (and its extent as including all Ireland in 1801-1922 does not arise). If we need a "Toll roads in Ireland", it can be created as a separate article. Since the section on England and Wales is a parent to more detailed articles, this does not need to be expanded (or not much), but the "Scotland" section remains poor and I have tagged it as a stub. I have just expanded the "recent" section to bring in toll bridges, with a link to a separate article on this. There is a category, Category:Toll bridges in the United Kingdom, which should perhaps be better linked in too. Peterkingiron (talk) 11:28, 8 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Tyne Tunnel, Mersey Tunnel...

Why no mention of toll tunnels? And shouldn't this article be about the UK, the country, not Great Britain, the island? IainUK talk 17:39, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have added the Tyne Tunnel (and some others). PeterEastern (talk) 07:40, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Current tolls and history of tolls

Having now read the above discussions, can I suggest it would be more sensible to have two separate articles? One detailing the current state of toll roads in the United Kingdom, and another which details the history of toll roads on the island, if that is indeed of historic encyclopaedic interest. Either way, I do think some mention of toll tunnels should be included. IainUK talk 17:47, 13 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have adjusted the lead and content so that this article now covers both the current state and the history, (which is also what the title suggests it might do). I have also created a link to a new article on Road pricing in the United Kingdom which will focus on all the politics around charging for road space in congested areas. It may however be appropriate to bring these two articles together in due course. For now I will try to avoid duplication. PeterEastern (talk) 07:40, 17 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is a general article. GB is an appropriate scope, because there are no road links with Ireland. We already hve two more detailed hisotrical articles - Turnpike trust and pavage. It is appropriate for this article to cover all periods. The new Road pricing in the United Kingdom is a welcome addition on the current situation. I would however suggest that the list of current toll roads/bridges/tunnels should come much later in the article. Peterkingiron (talk) 23:56, 18 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have switched the history and 'current' sections as per your suggestion. I do think also agree that GB does seem to be the natural scope for an article about roads and road tolls. Possibly the new Road pricing in the United Kingdom article should be moved to Road pricing in Great Britain? PeterEastern (talk) 04:46, 19 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. I suspect the Northner Ireland governement has not introduced Road Pricing, so that a GB focus would be appropriate. Peterkingiron (talk) 18:14, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

However... the HGV road user charging system being proposed by the coalition government at the moment talks about the UK[1] and section 39 of the main pdf consultation document states "In Northern Ireland, the Driver and Vehicle Agency could administer the user charge as DVLA’s agent (as it currently does with VED). Or DVLA may bring both activities in-house". As such it seems that UK is the right title even if it doesn't have much sense! PeterEastern (talk) 22:06, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Toll Bridge by Bath

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathampton_Toll_Bridge

this is missing - I went over it today one pound charge normally

last time I edited something a sort of sheriff's badge appeared & gave me a warning so am nervous about saying anything 2A00:23C6:9D0E:1501:2232:4104:AF38:8F81 (talk) 22:38, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]