Talk:Tojutsu

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If:

"The term Tojutsu is rarely used or mentioned in martial arts sources."

Is it actually worth a page at all? I don't think coming here from the link on Kenjutsu adds anything to your knowledge, unless you are trying to learn japanese? StringTokeniser (talk) 19:01, 29 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I think it is useful for whn you encounter the term in martail arts literature or in a school curriculum, and you don't know what it means. An encyclopedia is a reference book, isn't it? I have a problem with the whole 'kenjutsu includes battojutsu" thing. If it does, why all schoold have different kenjutsu and battou or iai kata? In a sense, all koryu in the past had multiple weapons and all for sure had both kenjutsu and iai practice, but in the present a lot of them teach only one weapon or just iai. - nem13 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.8.109.4 (talk) 19:55, 20 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have personally seen numerous primary source manuscripts and, particularly mokuroku that have displayed the kanji 刀術, in both headers and in the bodies of explanatory paragraphs. This is most commonly found within the currents of Kage-ryu and Jiki Shinkage-ryu, as well as Maniwa Nen-ryu, but there are a few outliers as well. The Wasada University has several examples of this. Luke Crocker 03:00, 3 April 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lukecrocker (talk • contribs)

Honchō Bugei Shōden (本朝武芸小伝)

Apparently the Honchō Bugei Shōden (本朝武芸小伝), written by Hinatsu Yosuke Shigetaka in 1714 (which is apparently the oldest Japanese book on the topic of the origins of various martial art schools) doesn't use the word "kenjutsu" at all but only the word "tōjutsu". "Kenjutsu" seems a more modern approach, referring to the mystical history of swords.

Can someone confirm this perhaps? If so, this might be interested to be added to the lemma!

BTW: even the dictionary of JWPce (Japanese Word Processor ce) knows "tōjutsu" and gives as an explanation: "(n) (MA) fencing, art of wielding swords". Kennin (talk) 16:29, 18 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I have a scan of the Honcho Bugei Shoden, and can confirm that the term Tojutsu is indeed used. It can be seen to the left HERE. Prior to around the 10th or so century, the term "kenjutsu" (劍術) referred to the science (術) of assembling (僉) the sword (刀); early metallurgy. This development was discussed in the earlier newsletters of the Nihon Bijutsu Token Hozon Kyokai (I no longer have my collection and can't seem to source this further right now). I would update the article accordingly, however, I'm quite new to editing Wikipedia articles and would like such a responsibility to be someone elses. Luke Crocker 03:17, 3 April 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lukecrocker (talk • contribs)