Talk:Tintin in the Congo/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: Retrolord (talk · contribs) 11:24, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! I will be conducting this review. Thanks! ★★Retro Lord ★★ 11:24, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Hello there RetroLord, and thanks so much for undertaking this GA review! I'll post my responses in the boxes below, if that's okay with you ? Midnightblueowl (talk) 16:42, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thats great. I've reviewed the article again and taken onboard the comments of you and Curly Turkey (sorry if i left anyone out), expect a final result sometime tommorow. Thanks! ★★Retro Lord ★★ 12:11, 21 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Is this all really from page 25? Did you use the same citations by mistake?

"In the 1940s, when Hergé's popularity had increased, he redrew many of the original black-and-white Tintin adventures in color using the ligne claire ("clear line")[a] drawing style he had developed, so that they visually fitted in with the new Tintin stories that he was creating. Tintin in the Congo was one such of these books, with the new version being published in 1946. As a part of this modification, Hergé also cut the page length down from 110 plates to the standard 62 pages, as suggested to him by the publisher Casterman. For the 1946 version, Hergé made several changes to the actual story, cutting many of the references to Belgium and colonial rule. Farr claimed that this decision was made to broaden its appeal to international readers rather than to reflect the increasing anti-imperialist trend across Africa.[26] For example, in the scene where Tintin teaches Congolese school children about geography, he states in the 1930–31 version that "My dear friends, today I'm going to talk to you about your country: Belgium!" whereas in the 1946 version, he instead gives them a mathematics lesson, asking "Now who can tell me what two plus two make?... Nobody". In another change, the character of Jimmy MacDuff, the owner of the leopard that attacks Tintin, was changed from a black manager of the Great American Circus into a white "supplier of the biggest zoos in Europe".[26]

In the 1946 colorised version, Hergé also included a cameo by Thomson and Thompson, the two detectives that he had first introduced in the fourth Tintin story, Cigars of the Pharaoh (1932–34), which was chronologically set after the Congolese adventure. Adding them to the first page, they are featured in the backdrop, watching a crowd surrounding Tintin as he boards a train and commenting that it "Seems to be a young reporter going to Africa...""

That seems like alot from one page in a book. Correct me if im wrong though. ★★Retro Lord ★★ 00:37, 22 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just checked, and I have made a mistake; the final reference should be to page 21. I've made the necessary correction. Farr's Tintin: The Complete Companion is a fairly sizeable book, with each page being A4 in size, explaining how quite a lot of information can be contained within. Best, Midnightblueowl (talk) 13:13, 25 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Seems to be a young reporter going to Africa..." Why not cite the actual book here? ★★Retro Lord ★★ 13:43, 25 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, its Farr who is being cited to highlight the significance of the Thom(p)sons appearance here, and I'm not sure that referencing the book itself would really add anything. If you think that its a must, then okay, but on this instance I don't think it's really necessary. Midnightblueowl (talk) 20:36, 25 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Mostly satisfied here. I'll let you go on the citations rule seeing as the rest of the article is of excellent quality. I'll pass this shortly ★★Retro Lord ★★ 19:34, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Much appreciated Retro! Thanks for undertaking the review! Midnightblueowl (talk) 23:33, 28 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	"best known under the pen name Hergé" Shouldn't that be "by", not "under"? Up to you. I personally thing "under" is preferable to "by" in this instance. However, I am open to other opinions on this one. Midnightblueowl (talk) 16:42, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	Tintinologist? Is that a real word? Yes, "Tintinologist" is a real word. by Curly Turkey. The signature seemed to be screwing up the table so I removed it. Sorry. Mine does it too. Curly's right, "Tintinologist" is indeed a widely used word. I don't think it's recognised in the OED just yet, but is certainly very widely found in both literature on the subject, and on the web-based community of Tintin fandom (the biggest fansite is called tintinologist.org). Midnightblueowl (talk) 11:43, 20 June 2013 (UTC)[reply] Aren't all quotes meant to have a citation directly after them? Or have I got my policies confused. Yes, they are, even when it means redundancy in inline citations. By Curly Turkey. Which instance are you referring to that requires rectification ? Midnightblueowl (talk) 11:43, 20 June 2013 (UTC)[reply] Things like "were still fairly fresh" need to have inline cites directly after them, even if that means you have to throw the same inline cite twice in a row in the same sentence. No, I'm not joking. ———le dindon frisé. Forgive me if I am being impertinent, but I really do not believe that to be the case. I have pulled various articles up to GA and FA articles, and in none of these have I followed this use of referencing. In fact, I have never come across such an interpretation of the policy before in my seven years of being a Wikipedian. Midnightblueowl (talk) 21:06, 21 June 2013 (UTC)[reply] I'm going to have to pull you up on this one, the critical analysis section seems to be full of uncited quotes. -Retro- From the criteria, "it provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements that are challenged or likely to be challenged, and contentious material relating to living persons—science-based articles should follow the scientific citation guidelines;[3]" Meaning, cite each quote I would believe. I've always interpreted this – and from the looks of things, so have most GA reviewers I have come across – as meaning that we should include the footnote directly at the end of the sentence containing the quote, rather than at the end of the paragraph. That way the reader is still clear where the quote came from without the whole thing becoming an aesthetic mess. Midnightblueowl (talk) 13:19, 25 June 2013 (UTC)[reply] I've been called on this myself more than once. I'm fairly certain Retro's interpretation is the one they'll hold you to if you plan to bring this to FAC, although it may not be necessary for GA. ———Little Curly Turkey But I've taken various articles up for FAC, and this has never been a problem before... Midnightblueowl (talk) 11:48, 26 June 2013 (UTC)[reply] Very well. - Retro
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).
	2c. it contains no original research.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	" In one of these, Hergé depicted a native Congolese individual bowing before a European colonialist" And what about in the other one? I can see what you are trying to say here ( I think ), but can you say it directly? Statements shouldn't be implied in the articles, it should state directly what it means. I've made a change to "In one of these, Hergé depicted a native Congolese individual bowing before a European colonialist, a scene that he would repeat in Tintin in the Congo." Midnightblueowl (talk) 16:49, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	"It was a world view shared by everyone, distinguished principally by its complete ignorance of the world." Couldn't we do without this part of the quote? It's starting to stray a bit away from the topic of the book towards generalised political statements Sure thing; I'll remove it. Midnightblueowl (talk) 16:42, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply] "and not because Hergé believed that imperial rule would come to an end, something which only occurred in 1960" I'm not sure what relevance that bears to the topic. I think this could be removed. I've re-written this sentence as "Farr claimed that this decision was made to broaden its appeal to international readers rather than to reflect the increasing anti-imperialist trend across Africa." I think that this reflects the issue better. Midnightblueowl (talk) 16:42, 19 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
	7. Overall assessment.