Talk:Threshold (Star Trek: Voyager)

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Two different topics in one comment

1) I really don't know why the Infobox got that extra bit of weirdness in it (the thinner font and the other problems) after I shortened the caption. On that matter, I decided to leave well enough alone, I do not want to break it any further then it is.

2) Once again, I think the criticism section of this article should go because there seems to be no point to it that I can see. Is a YouTube video reliable citations anyway?

P.S. I hope people find my plot synopsis acceptable.

Lots42 04:14, 9 June 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I'm going to strongly disagree with point 2) above. Having just seen this episode for the first time, I was moved by the fact that it was so absurdly bad, so I looked to wikipedia about it. I found criticism section to be very useful, relevant, and informative. Removing it would be shortsighted. There is only the issue that one of the links (concerning decanonization) is no longer valid, and should be updated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.58.3.184 (talk) 02:53, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, slow clap for removing that criticism section. I came here specifically because it was mentioned as being the worst episode of Voyager, possibly of all Star Trek, on the Brannon wikipedia page. And what do I find? A whole line on it. I'm going to click back on my browser and go and read the rest of the pages that came up when I googled this page, because they were more informative. Keep on trekkin', editors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.11.125.158 (talk) 01:04, 25 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Worst Episode Ever

Sort of suprised there is very little mentioned about this being, in 50 years of Star Trek, the worst episode ever made, for various reasons. It generally ties with Spock's Brain as being the worst ep - though the 60's quality control was a bit shakier than recent TV. Deathlibrarian (talk) 12:25, 12 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

That's an opinion of yours. If someone else who's notable said it, we can include this. (And actually, I consider "The Way to Eden" to be the absolute worst of Star Trek, campy as it is. Daniel Case (talk) 06:27, 15 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

You wot? I love this episode. It's so weird. Freaked me out as a kid. And Spock's Brain is an absolute classic. 86.139.235.23 (talk) 17:52, 22 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Brannon Braga went on to co-create a tv show called Threshold ... he did not pick the title ... ^[1]

References

^ Ian Spelling (October 2005). "Crossing The Threshold". Starlog Magazine 339. p. 66. Threshold shares its title with a really bad Voyager episode. "David Goyer came up with the title," Braga reveals. "The irony did not go by me that 'Threshold' is considered to be one of the worst Star Trek episodes ever written. And somehow I wrote it.

... so even the guy who wrote it acknowledges that it is widely considered to be a one of the worst.
I found this while looking for sources to improve other articles, and I will not be editing this article, but if someone else wants to add some suitably worded encyclopedic text then please do go right ahead and use the reference. -- 109.76.136.17 (talk) 02:29, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Unfair criticism ?

The article states: "As well as this, the episode illustrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the basic principles of evolution, depicting it as a force ongoing within an individual member of a species, in the manner of a mystical force. In actuality, for evolution to occur there must be not only mutation, but differential reproduction and natural selection through long term population of an environment by numerous individuals"

I think this is an unfair criticism. After all, cells divide within an individual and undergo differential reproduction. It's not true that the DNA sequence is identical in every cell in your body. When you get cancer, that's certainly not the case in the tumour cells, where mutations switch off the normal inhibiting of cell division. As a result, the cancer cells are more successful at reproducing, and natural selection has unfortunate consequences for you. However, on a more positive note it is also the case that the operation of the immune system, where antibodies adapt in order to fight off new pathogens, is a clear example of evolutionary processes acting within the individual, and over quite a short time period! It involves rapid mutation (of the part of the antibody that binds on to the pathogen, and needs to find the correct shape in order to bind), with natural selection (the antibodies that bind more successfully are further replicated). Every time you get a cold, and you get over it in a few days, you should reflect that it is evolution happening in your own body that cured you. (I got most of this from the excellent popular science book "Darwin in the Genome" by Lynn Caporale). Perhaps the writers of the episode were not aware of all this, as they later admitted to it being a bad episode, but I would say that by sheer luck maybe they were more plausible than they thought. It is not unheard of that a Sci-Fi writer by power of the imagination anticipates scientific developments.

Alan1507 00:11, 3 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The thing about that though, is that the example you cite is a positive change within your body to make you adapt to the environment. By definition, that is indeed what evolution is (Whereas cancer is not a form of evolution whatsoever, and is rather just a simple mutation- all evolution is the result of a mutation but not all mutations are evolutions). Tom Paris actually managed to evolve into something that not only is less suitable to his environment, but rather into a creature that can't even get a basic need out of his environment (he needed a certain kind of atmosphere). This is the exact opposite of evolution. The random mish-mash of a lizard monster was created out of complete ignorance of the basic DEFINITION of evolution. 140.129.62.51 (talk) 15:03, 4 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly! It was based on the complete misconception that unfortunately many people have that evolution has some ultimate end goal when in reality evolution is nothing but adapting to the environment. MadScientistX11 (talk) 01:50, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Emmy Award For A Series

The information about an Emmy Award seems misleading. Westmore and team won for "Outstanding Makeup For A Series" [1] and at the risk of pointing out the obvious this is an episode not a series. There does seem to be various suggestions that the makeup work in this episode in particular was a big part of the reason for that win but I haven't yet found any reliable sources specifically stating it. This needs to be properly verified and clarified that it belongs in this episode article at all. (On a purely structural matter the lead section is supposed to summarize what is actually in the article, not supplant it, and the article body does not yet contain the relevant award information.) -- 109.79.172.6 (talk) 14:44, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. AJD (talk) 16:18, 21 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Ian Spelling (October 2005). "Crossing The Threshold". Starlog Magazine 339. p. 66. Threshold shares its title with a really bad Voyager episode. "David Goyer came up with the title," Braga reveals. "The irony did not go by me that 'Threshold' is considered to be one of the worst Star Trek episodes ever written. And somehow I wrote it.

[1]