Talk:Thorin Oakenshield/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Cavie78 (talk · contribs) 14:55, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

I'll have a look at this one Cavie78 (talk) 14:55, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Thank you very much! Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:05, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Lead

• The lead should be an overview of the article. There's no mention of anything from the Interpretations or Adaptations sections, hardly anything from the Origin section and no mention of his appearance in Unfinished Tales

Extended the lead to cover all of the Interpretations and Adaptations, and to mention UT.

Appearances

• You seem to capitalise "dwarves" sometimes and use lowercase at other times

Sorted. I'm as case-blind as Tolkien. He spent an unimaginable amount of time correcting his own cases for the Middle-earth races.

• "Smaug had attacked Erebor (the Lonely Mountain) about 150 years before, and had taken both the dwarves' mountain and their treasure" Is Erebor the dwarves' mountain? Make this clearer

Edited.

• "an heirloom of his house" His house?

Done.

• "and Thorin alone of the Dwarves was not taken unawares" Think this could be worded better. "and all the Dwarves apart from Thorin were taken unawares"?

Ah, but we want Thorin as the subject of the sentence.

I aren't going to fail the article for this, but I think (with apologies) it sounds clunky and unencylopaedic in tone

Reworded.

• "fought valiantly in the goblin tunnels" "valiantly" sounds a bit fluffy

Reworded.

• "When the dwarves were captured by the wood-elves of Mirkwood" I thought the other dwarves were taken unawares by the trolls. What happened to them? How did they escape from the wood-elves?

Good point, described.

Thanks, but I think there are a few problems with the new sentences:

"Thorin found the Elven blade Orcrist in the trolls' cache,[T 2] and used the sword skilfully at need, fighting goblins in the tunnels beneath the Misty Mountains At the same time, Bilbo found a magic ring, using it to escape from the tunnels past the goblin guards"

• There should be a full stop after "Misty Mountains".

Woops, added.

• Link magic ring to One Ring?

Done, but I wonder. Nobody --- Tolkien, the characters, the reader --- knew that in 1937.

• I appreciate that you'd want to avoid repetition of the word "sword", but "Elven blade" sounds like something from a fantasty novel not an encylopaedia article about a fantasy novel.
• The same goes for "used the sword skilfully at need" I don't really know what you mean by "at need" and "skillfully" is, again, fluffy. You should relate the facts alone

Removed.

• "He was the first to emerge from the barrels at Lake-town" What barrels?

Described.

• "and marched right up to the leaders of the town"

Edited; just deleting it would change the sense quite radically.

This is better, but again I think there is no need to say "boldly". "Marched up to" gives the sense on its own in my opinion.

Removed.

• "Seeing that Smaug was not at home" -> "Seeing that Smaug was not there"

Done.

• "The dwarves then learnt from the ancient raven Roäc that Smaug had been killed" This makes it sound like Smaug was killed at some point in the past. Obviously this article is about Thorin, but I think you need to say a tiny bit more about Smaug and Bilbo and Smaug being killed in Lake-town for this to make sense, especially as you mention Bard the Bowman later

You're right. Added what I hope is just the right amount.

• The quotes seem a bit random and aren't given any context. What is the song for?

They are chosen to show aspects of Thorin's character, and have the context of the paragraphs beside them as well as their chapter locations. The song speaks both of his welcome at Lake-town, and of his reputation. I've added a description to each quote.

Better. Again, I don't think they're necessary (or at least that they're not ALL necessary), but happy to go with your decision

Noted.

Origins

• "They are strongly associated with gold" -> "They are characterised as having an association with gold"

Done, though I prefer the shorter form.

Interpretations

• "Shippey writes" As this is a new section, I think you should say "Tolkien critic Tom Shippey" again

That isn't usual practice on Wikipedia.

Adaptations / Family Tree

• Ok

Images

• Ok, with appropriate licences

Sources

• Look good

Thank you.

Placing on hold for now. I hope you take my comments regarding prose in the Appearences section in the spirit they are intended - apologies for any offence caused Cavie78 (talk) 20:32, 26 May 2020 (UTC)

Cavie78: No worries. I think we're all done now. Chiswick Chap (talk) 12:38, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks Chiswick Chap. Just one thing - you still say "at need" in The Hobbit section. I think "used the sword" would suffice Cavie78 (talk) 12:58, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Cavie78: fixed. Chiswick Chap (talk) 13:04, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Thanks again Chiswick Chap. Congrats on another GA! Cavie78 (talk) 14:15, 27 May 2020 (UTC)