Talk:There Was an Old Lady Who Swallowed a Fly

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Songs

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Songs, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of songs on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SongsWikipedia:WikiProject SongsTemplate:WikiProject Songssong articles

Sign language

I remember learning this in grade 3. My teacher used it to teach sign languaug. We had to remember the signs for the animals.

Game

At a summer camp in California in the 1990s, we used to play a game in which the goal was to sing and act out the verses as fast as possible, with increasing speed as the verses went on. Even better if you could sing each verse on a single breath. Not everyone would sing. But I don't remember the exact rules and I'm not sure if it merits inclusion. Original research? Also, for all I know it might be quite uncommon, and I can't recall playing it anywhere else. BookishAcolyte (talk) 04:42, 26 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Additional Verse

I heard this one from a singer at an assembly when I was in elementary school during the Jurassic period (about 1957):

(just before the last)

There was an old lady who swallowed a rhinoceros;

How prepoceros! To swallow a rhinoceros!

She swallowed the rhinoceros to catch the cow...

etc.

Kostaki mou 03:21, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There's another version which has her swallow a pig. "Oh, what a prig, To swallow a pig." Burl Ives sang that version. In it, the pig replaces the cow. Helensguy1 (talk) 16:20, 8 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

copyright status?

When did Rose Bonne die? This would be important for determining the copyright status of the work. The copyright status is important to know. Also http://kids.niehs.nih.gov/games/songs/childrens/swallflymid.htm has lyrics if you want. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.204.78.153 (talk) 07:21, 25 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Aphorism

I just heard, "swallowed the spider to catch the fly" used as an aphorism, meaning ingesting some kind of harmful substance in order to achieve some ends. It seemed quite clever. Is this a common saying? Could it have predated this song, or is it a relative new saying, or could this have been a coining of the term that I heard. In this instance I think it was used to explain the deal psychotherapists made in involving themselves with the US torture programs in the 2000s--184.63.132.236 (talk) 17:31, 23 December 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Published form

The lyrics as I found them had a partial goat verse and the formatting/punctuation used in the entire rhyme/song was very inconsistent, so I went ahead and completed the verse and chose what I believed to be the most likely correct formatting/use of punctuation. There is a very good possibility that it is no longer matching the published version in general, and specifically the inconsistent punctuation may have been transcribed correctly from the original, which may have just had inconsistent punctuation. So it now looks and flows much better. Though, one of the verses is split between the two columns... some one who knows how may want to correct that. I will remove the note about it being a published form and if someone can properly edit it back to the correct published form, can add that descriptor back. Uninvited Ghost (talk) 08:58, 6 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I now see the "published form" was just what someone put up on a website. It also confirms the goat verse was added later. I think the current version is superior, but it now has no source. I suppose the current version should be changed to match a version that can be referenced, but hopefully someone will find one with a more consistent use of punctuation instead. Uninvited Ghost (talk) 09:21, 6 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Meaning

There is more than just the absurdity attached to the size of the animals she swallows, that's just for the laughs. The actual MAIN theme of the rhyme is about trying to solve small problems by irrationally just throwing the next biggest thing you can find at it.

It's meant as a life lesson in how NOT to solve problems.

funny, I remember even being taught this when I first heard the song as a child of 5, and asked if I could think of a better way to solve the "problem" of having swallowed a fly; It was part of critical thinking skills. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2404:440C:10C5:3A00:D13F:AC8F:DDEA:4A3D (talk) 12:02, 22 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Priceless Explanation of Humour

This absolute straight-face explanation "The humour of the song stems from the absurdity that the woman is able to inexplicably and impossibly swallow animals of preposterous sizes, suggesting that she is both superhuman and immortal. However, the addition of a horse is finally enough to kill her. Her inability to survive after swallowing the horse is an event that abruptly and unexpectedly applies real-world logic to the song, directly contradicting her formerly established logic-defying animal-swallowing capability." is the funniest thing I've ever red on Wikipedia. Chapéu! 2003:EC:9F20:7900:F283:16C2:756E:35E0 (talk) 10:04, 16 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, there is no need to explain the humour. Plus it's WP:OR. Adpete (talk) 06:55, 16 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Origin missing

The most important information is missing: what is the origin? Is it traditional, or was it written by Rose Bonne? The article as it stands is contradictory: it says it was written by Rose Bonne, but also says that 1947 versions predate her version. If the song is believed to be a traditional folk song which was adapted and published by Bonne, it should say so. Adpete (talk) 00:55, 4 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I have edited the paragraph on the 1947 version to make it clearer that it predates Bonne. Adpete (talk) 01:23, 4 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

According to the Burl Ives liner notes here, the song was "derived from an old ballad". There is nothing online about "Rose Bonne", other than (poorly or un-)sourced suggestions either that she was British, or that her full name was Rosemary Bedeau. Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:33, 4 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

PS: This says: "The Burl Ives 1953 hit "I Know an Old Lady Who Swallowed a Fly," a children's song created by Canadian Alan Mills on the basis of a poem credited to an Englishwoman named Rose Bonne—Edith Fowke had brought the song to Ives' attention while he was on tour in Canada the year before....". Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:58, 4 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

My maternal grandmother, born in 1905, taught me a version of it as a poem, in about 1960, and she always claimed that she was taught it as a ballad when at school, well before 1920. I'm inclined to believe her, because the words were somewhat different. I have no definitive reference for that, but in my secondary school library, there was an old, dark green hardback book of jokes and funny stories for children which was published around 1935. Maybe someone with access to an old library can research that? It would be very helpful. As Burl Ives said about his version, it was 'derived from an old ballad', even by 1950's standards. 80.0.124.54 (talk) 21:38, 21 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]