Talk:The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle

Genre

Can we get a more specific genre than "novel"? That doesn't say much.--Subversive Sound (talk) 17:02, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

Factual Error

I don't have the book in front of me, but I believe it is mentioned at one point that Cinnamon is actually that character's real name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.204.169.101 (talk) 18:41, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

    You mean in Chapter 20, the paragraph talking about when Cinnamon was born? (473 in my book) The line, "His name was Cinnamon, wasn't it?" seems to be Nutmeg confirming what alias she had given to her son.Wakerobynn (talk) 03:21, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

In Russian edition it's in chapter 21 of the third book. Nutmeg is telling a story of her life, and says that in 1963 she had a child, Cinnamon. After this Osada thinks to himself "Is it his real name?". There is no reason for him to think so, Nutmeg concealed her and her son's identity throughout the whole novel, why would she give away a real name now. 69.119.232.155 (talk) 00:21, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Incorrect link?

"A dayschool at Bristol University on the novel is listed on this site"--I followed this link and couldn't see any reference to the book. Can anyone update this link/ confirm that it should be removed? Varchoel 14:43, 02 July 2006

Differences in Japanese hard/paperback and English

I was interested to read this passage: It must also be noted that ... there are also difference between the original Japanese hardcover and paperback editions. Please could this be expanded to outline the differences? Thanks Brodders 14:51, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry I can't expand on that, as I only have the Japanese paperbacks and English... oh but I would LOVE the hardcover. This is my favorite book. About your question, I added that text because I remember hearing that there were slight stylistic and story difference between the two Japanese versions. Apparantly they were not big enough to signifigantly change the translation into other languages. I found the comment nestled in the email transcript between Jay Rubin and other authors on the subject somewhere online. However, I don't know anymore details, and I have forgotten the link... which is why I left that one sentence vague, so someone who has read both versions might be tapped to comment on the differences. -- NatsukiGirl\^talk 17:05, 12 September 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. This is also one of my favourite books, by one of my favourite authors, which is why I was interested. I was also very interested to read about the missing chapters from the English translation. Unfortunately I can't speak/read Japanese, but if anyone could provide a translation of the missing passages I'd be very grateful. Brodders 09:01, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

I only have read the Japanese once, and not fully, as I'm not completely fluent. When I obtained the Japanese version I skimmed through and made note of some things I had wondered about. For example (assuming you know a bit about the language) Nearly everyone's names are written out in katakana ... I felt that was rather interesting. What that is trying to say is unclear, but when I saw that for the first time, it felt right, and made sense. Obviosuly Kumiko's name should be in katakana... but I believe all the nicknames (Creta, Malta, Nutmeg... etc) in the book point to the fact that the other non-nickname characters (Toru, Kumiko, Mei...etc), even while being themselves, are not fully themselves. We knew that from before... but seeing those names written that way just made it even more clear. The other thing that stood out were the two extra chapters, and the "moved" chapter. I'm at work right now so I can't give you exact chapter numbers at the moment, but I will do so once I get home tonight. All the missing and moving takes place near the middle of book three, around the time the dead house is purchased. I have wanted to see Jay Rubin's translations of those chapters... however it seems he hasn't shown them to anyone or published them anywhere. If you find that a professional translation of those two exists, let me know as well. -- NatsukiGirl\^talk 16:47, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

Many of the character's names are given in Kanji at appropriate times, ie, when the speaker or narrator knows the Kanji. Kumiko is the notable exception. For example, Kanou Maruta (at least the Kanou part) is written in Kanji after Kumiko calls Touru, telling him to expect a call from Kanou. Touru's own name is written in katakana when Kanou Maruta first calls him, but afterwards the Kanji are used, perhaps to indicate that Touru knows that Kanou Maruta knows how to write his name. Using katakana when a character does not know the kanji of a name is fairly common usage in Japanese. The only time this is very significant in Windup Bird Chronicle is the case of Kumiko. Touru uses katakana for her last name, though he uses kanji when refering to his last name, though they are the same. I would advise refraining from commenting extensively on the nuances of the Japanese text if you are not fluent, and do not have the work on hand. 128.122.60.85 (talk) 21:44, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

My knowledge of Japanese culture and language is next to zero, and only informed by reading authors such as Murakami and Ishiguro etc, but it seems to me that writing out the names in katakana must be significant, simply because Murakami is too precise an author to indulge in pretentions unless there is an important reason for it. It upsets me that a translator, or a publisher, should arbitrarily edit the work they are translating, unless it was done in consultation with Murakami. Even so, if the chapters appeared in the original Japanese version it seems unfair to leave them out of the English version! It would be interesting to know their status in other language translations. Thanks for the info though, NatsukiGirl - interesting stuff. Brodders Talk to me 11:56, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Oh, I should have mentioned that, yes, Jay rubin did consult with Murakami at every stage of the translation into English. I think I remember they said they needed to cut some because the book was too bulky. I hate that reason... if a book is good, it's good, no matter the size. I wish there was a way to ge ahold of a "Translator's Editon" lol... the way it was before the publisher ordered it to be hacked down. -- NatsukiGirl\^talk 17:05, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

I guess in that case it's entirely possible that Rubin and Murakami made the decision to cut the missing chapters before they were translated, in which case they wouldn't be available unless someone's done a private translation. I agree that they shouldn't muck about with the original like that, though. Like I said before, I wonder if other language editions contain the missing chapters (I could probably read them if they're available in French, for instance).Brodders Talk to me 21:05, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

What a coincidence, I'm going to Paris for a few days in about a week. I can't read French, but if you can't find a copy online I'd be delighted to have a peek in a book shop for it while I'm there. -- NatsukiGirl\^talk 21:07, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Cool - if you do go into a bookshop, and you're able to work out what Wind-Up Bird Chronicle is in French (Chroniques de l'oiseau a ressort according to the French Wikipedia), you ought to be able to tell whether or not the missing chapters are there, providing you've got an English copy to compare it with (or even if you can just remember how many chapters there are in the English version). If the chapters are there, and you're prepared to invest in a copy, then let me know and we can take this discussion off Wiki and I can try and do some sort of translation job (failing that, I know professional translators who I'm sure could help out). Cheers, and enjoy Paris. Brodders Talk to me 15:54, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

I just remembered something else, the person who first told me about this book five/six years ago spoke fluent French... hahaha, it took that long to finally come full circle to this point, lol. Now let's hope the chapters are in there! -- NatsukiGirl\^talk 19:49, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

I actually just completed a course in Japan focused mostly on Murakami's works, and half of the translations that I read were Jay Rubin's and half were Alfred Birnbaum's. We also had the honor of having Birnbaum give a lecture on translation in general, but he mentioned during it, his issue with the translation of his colleague. Though he says the text is "translated with help from the author" and that it is "the only official translation", Murakami had been impressed by Birnbaum's translation at the time, (and he also mentioned that every good translator consults the author if they are still alive)and that he personally, of all the translations he has done that have also been done by others, this complete discontinuation of the printing of his version was not justified because Rubin's translation was just not as good. This was followed by confirmation from my professor who has also personally been able to meet Murakami, if a literary commentator, and has studied all of Murakami's works (in multiply languages I'm guessing, since he taught in France a few years ago). I hope to find this translation in Japan before I return home, because I was told it's in the price range of ridiculous when you finally do find it online. It someone manages to find it, please let me know because I am curious if Birnmaum was just bitter or not. I also hope I can improve my Japanese to the point that I can manage the Japanese in the next month or two so I can read it in it's original form. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 43.244.33.31 (talk) 17:28, 21 June 2008 (UTC)

new yorker

i lent my copy of the book to a friend and never got it back. in the us edition, on the copyright page, there's mention of the issue numbers and the titles theyre were published under (it's the zoo story). wish i could be more specific than that. Nateji77 20:17, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you're trying to say... -- NatsukiGirl\^talk 20:18, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

Oh, I see. You were just saying your reference for adding the New Yorker blurb. That's cool. You don't have to tell people... if you just put the refrence blurb in your edit summary, or add an external link, that's usually good enough. :) -- NatsukiGirl\^talk 20:21, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

what i was trying to say was that anyone with a us edition and the inclination to do so could add more detail to the new yorker blurb, principally the issues in and title under which it was published there. Nateji77 12:49, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Wind-up Bird Chronicle.jpg

Image:Wind-up Bird Chronicle.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 20:57, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

is the song really based or inspired by the book?

The song mentioned within the article, is there a source showing that the song was based on or inspired by the book? If not then it needs to be removed. -- NatsukiGirl\^talk 09:06, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

False assumptions

There has been a claim on the page that because of the way the names were written, Murakami did not want the book to be translated. Murakami and Rubin actually consulted about the translation, which obviously wouldn't happen if Rubin did it without permission. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.161.56.39 (talk) 18:38, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

what kind of bird is a wind-up bird?

I think it should be added to the wiki what type of bird it is Rebent (talk) 13:20, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

It is not any specific type of a bird (different characters try to get a glimpse of it throughout the book, but it never appears). It's just a sound that characters hear at emotionally charged/significant moments. Moreover, not all of them hear it - there are a few instances when only one of a group of characters present in the scene hears the sound.69.119.232.155 (talk) 00:24, 10 February 2013 (UTC)

Just skip it

The last version of the article had the following phrase in the description of May Kasahara character: "when May is not present, she writes letters to him (though the reader can peruse them, her letters never reach him)". I don't think someone can just say that it's ok to miss certain parts of a book because they don't directly move the plot forward. Why not skip all parts in which characters think/dream/reminisce? May is a significant character, you can't just dispense with her. Also, really unnecessary spoiler!69.119.232.155 (talk) 14:36, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

Analysis

The plot section seems highly detailed and possibly confusing to someone who has not read the book. On the other hand, the article is entirely lacking in analysis or discussion of major themes, which might be useful for article readers wishing to understand what the book is "about". 73.170.41.47 (talk) 07:06, 27 January 2017 (UTC)

themes

the surface layer of the novel is explained in great detail but there is no analysis of major themes. Adding this will strengthen this page.Jo.bolas (talk) 15:27, 7 March 2018 (UTC) jo.bolas

Cursory treatment of Manchuko and Kwantung Army

I was disappointed at how little information we have about the various setting in the book. Also there was only cursory mention of the many troubling and eerie things that happen with the military officers and vet in Manchukuo. There is not even a mention of the powerful Kwantung Army and its disintegration, a major symbol in the book. I do see some of it there, but not enough.

True, the entire entry for the book is quite brief--which has its advantages. Perhaps, rather than sticking to only a simple plot summary, we could also have a more in depth summary. I'm trying to decide how much material might be worth adding about the military aspects and where it should be placed.

All this said, it does look like a well-organized article and I hate to undermine its simplicity with too much detail about the war aspects that I find so fascinating. But they are a critical theme of the book. Maybe there is a good essay that analyzes the role of war crimes and how they intermingle with the other themes.

Thoughts? --David Tornheim (talk) 08:18, 26 April 2018 (UTC)