Talk:The West Christmas Ever/GA1
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA Review
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Reviewer: Aoba47 (talk · contribs) 04:56, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Picking this up for a review if that is okay with you. I have watched some Drag Race, but I must admit that I have not seen season eleven. Aoba47 (talk) 04:56, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Aoba47, Thanks! The season was pretty "elevengendary"... (in the words of Nina West). ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:12, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- I am glad you enjoyed it! I think I'm just burned out on Drag Race, but I find that reality television in general can get quite repetitive over time. Aoba47 (talk) 01:10, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- Aoba47, Thanks! The season was pretty "elevengendary"... (in the words of Nina West). ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:12, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Lead and infobox
[edit]- Please spell out extended play. The acronym EP can be included in parenthesis after the first use and used throughout the lead afterwards.
Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:35, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- I am uncertain about the "first Christmas EP". From my understanding, this is the only time West has released a Christmas EP (let alone Christmas in general) so I think this is a little premature. Wording like that makes me think there is at least a "second Christmas EP", and that's not true in this situation.
- Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:35, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Add ALT text to the infobox image.
- Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:35, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Is it worthwhile to link comedy music in the infobox?
- Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:35, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- The lead says "Producer Entertainment Group" and the infobox says "Producer Entertainment". Please be consistent with one way or the other.
- Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:35, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- The lead seems rather short. For instance, it does not mention the music video for "Jingle Juice" or anything about the critical response.
- Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 14:35, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Development and composition
[edit]- Add ALT text to the image.
- Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:04, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Link extended play and spell it out on its first use in the article.
- Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:04, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- For this part, ("Santa's Not So Little Helper", "Nina the Extra Elf", and the title track), instead of saying "the title track", say "The West Christmas Ever". The EP's title has not been explicitly said at this point in the article so it is a little odd to say "title track" here.
- Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:04, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- I would more explicitly say that Nina West is Andrew Levitt's drag persona or something about him being a drag queen. It is somewhat hinted at here, "Nina West (the stage name for Andrew Levitt)", but I would be more direct.
- Better? ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:04, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Looks good to me. Just remember to link Nina West on the first mention. Aoba47 (talk) 15:44, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Aoba47, Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:13, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Aoba47,
- Looks good to me. Just remember to link Nina West on the first mention. Aoba47 (talk) 15:44, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Better? ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:04, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- According to Cummings' Wikipedia page, he has been divorced from his wife since 2011. I am assuming West met these people after the divorce so wouldn't ex-wife be more appropriate?
- Oh! Ummm, I'm not sure. Maybe he remarried and his Wikipedia has not been updated? Sources just say 'wife' so that's what I wrote. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:04, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- I could not find any record of Cummings remarrying anyone. After looking at the source, West was the one that said she was his wife so it is probably a case where she misspoke or was not aware that they were divorced. You could make this a footnote if you would like. Aoba47 (talk) 15:49, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Aoba47, I'm not even really sure what this would look like. This is one instance where I might ask you to update the page directly, if that's appropriate? ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:15, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Or what if we say "via family members who..." ---Another Believer (Talk) 00:22, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- Why not just ex-wife as that would be most accurate description? Again, after I googled this, he did not remarry so it just seems like Nina West was mistaken (unless you can find information that he did in fact remarried). The "family members" wording sounds way too vague to me. Aoba47 (talk) 00:58, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- Aoba47, Ok, done! ---Another Believer (Talk) 01:31, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- Why not just ex-wife as that would be most accurate description? Again, after I googled this, he did not remarry so it just seems like Nina West was mistaken (unless you can find information that he did in fact remarried). The "family members" wording sounds way too vague to me. Aoba47 (talk) 00:58, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- Aoba47, I'm not even really sure what this would look like. This is one instance where I might ask you to update the page directly, if that's appropriate? ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:15, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- I could not find any record of Cummings remarrying anyone. After looking at the source, West was the one that said she was his wife so it is probably a case where she misspoke or was not aware that they were divorced. You could make this a footnote if you would like. Aoba47 (talk) 15:49, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Oh! Ummm, I'm not sure. Maybe he remarried and his Wikipedia has not been updated? Sources just say 'wife' so that's what I wrote. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:04, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- I have noticed you say Nina West's full name every time rather than just using the last name. Is there any reason for this?
- Well, there's no Wikipedia rule here, but as a general rule we do not refer to drag queens by their last names because they are not "real" last names. Sometimes sources refer to specific queens by their fake last names, but more often drag queens are referred to by their first name when abbreviating is needed. This kind of explains why Category:RuPaul's Drag Race contestants sorts by first name. No one would refer to Alaska Thunderfuck as 'Thunderfuck' or Detox Icunt as 'Icunt' -- they would refer to them as Alaska and Detox, respectively. Does this make sense? Again, there's no set rule here but I'm just try to be somewhat consistent. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:04, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you for the explanation. I was just curious if there was a way around repeating the full name, but it's not a big issue. It should be fine as it currently stands. Aoba47 (talk) 15:43, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Aoba47, Thanks, --Another Believer (Talk) 23:14, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you for the explanation. I was just curious if there was a way around repeating the full name, but it's not a big issue. It should be fine as it currently stands. Aoba47 (talk) 15:43, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Well, there's no Wikipedia rule here, but as a general rule we do not refer to drag queens by their last names because they are not "real" last names. Sometimes sources refer to specific queens by their fake last names, but more often drag queens are referred to by their first name when abbreviating is needed. This kind of explains why Category:RuPaul's Drag Race contestants sorts by first name. No one would refer to Alaska Thunderfuck as 'Thunderfuck' or Detox Icunt as 'Icunt' -- they would refer to them as Alaska and Detox, respectively. Does this make sense? Again, there's no set rule here but I'm just try to be somewhat consistent. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:04, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- For this part, (In an interview with Billboard, she recalled that Cummings agreed to participate "without batting a lash".), I would use "he" instead of "Cummings" as the repetition of his name becomes a little too much at this point.
- Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:04, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Songs
[edit]- For this sentence, ("Jingle Juice" has been described as a "honky-honk holiday hoedown".), clarify who described it that way.
- Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:12, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- I would have this be its own section rather than a subsection, and rename "Development and composition" as just "Development".
- Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:12, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- But the start of the first section include composition info, and I'm struggling to transition
- I struggled with this as well, but how does the current version look? ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:12, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- It looks really good. Thank you for addressing this! Aoba47 (talk) 15:50, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- I struggled with this as well, but how does the current version look? ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:12, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- For this sentence, ("Christmas Arrow" commemorates one of Nina West's favorite singers.), clarify who this singer is.
- Sourcing does not say... I could listen to the track and confirm, but that'd be original research. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:12, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Understandable. Thank you for the explanation. Aoba47 (talk) 15:49, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Aoba47, Yup! ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:11, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Understandable. Thank you for the explanation. Aoba47 (talk) 15:49, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Sourcing does not say... I could listen to the track and confirm, but that'd be original research. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:12, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- I would link Hairspray.
- Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:12, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Release and promotion
[edit]- Add ALT text to the image.
- Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:18, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Who's to the right of West in this image?
- As far as I can tell, someone dressed as the 'animated' version of Nina West for promotional purposes. ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:18, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- The "According to the drag performer" wording sounds awkward. I would revise it.
- Done ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:18, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- This sentence, (To commemorate Nina West being named National Volunteer Fundraiser of the Year, the Nina West Foundation launched 'The West Christmas Ever — 25 days of Christmas' to present $1,000 grants to LGBT+ organizations throughout the United States every day from December 1 to December 25, 2019.), is quite long and dense with information. It looks even longer since it is pushed by the image. I would try to make this information more digestable and readable.
- A little better? ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:18, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Looks better to me. Aoba47 (talk) 15:51, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Thanks! ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:11, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Looks better to me. Aoba47 (talk) 15:51, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- A little better? ---Another Believer (Talk) 15:18, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Reception
[edit]- I am confused by the structure of this section. The first paragraph has a sentence about the chart performance and seemingly random quotes from critics, and then the second paragraph focuses more on the critics and their reviews. It just seems a little random right now.
- Hmm, well there are not a lot of reviews so I can't expand on the critical reception much at all. I've moved the Stephen Daw quote, which was really more a description of the EP's appearance of multiple genres. This leaves the chart position followed by critical reception for the "Reception" section. Does this work for you? ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:11, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- I would put the chart performance at the end of the paragraph since it seems a little strange to lead with it. I will reread this section once the prose is revised more. Aoba47 (talk) 01:09, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- Aoba47, Moved chart performance to end. ---Another Believer (Talk) 01:43, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- I would put the chart performance at the end of the paragraph since it seems a little strange to lead with it. I will reread this section once the prose is revised more. Aoba47 (talk) 01:09, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- Hmm, well there are not a lot of reviews so I can't expand on the critical reception much at all. I've moved the Stephen Daw quote, which was really more a description of the EP's appearance of multiple genres. This leaves the chart position followed by critical reception for the "Reception" section. Does this work for you? ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:11, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- I would work on sentence variety here. A majority of the sentence are: "X critic says Y opinion".
- I've tinkered with this just a little, but I'm not really seeing other options to avoid 'X critic of Y' or 'Y's X critic said'... ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:11, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- You could do this by adding more sentence variety. This resource more clearly explains it. I am not specifically focus on the "X critic of Y publication" or Y's X critic", but the overall sentence structure. The section reads more like a list and is not as engaging as it could be. Aoba47 (talk) 01:09, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- Aoba47, Better? ---Another Believer (Talk) 01:37, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- You could do this by adding more sentence variety. This resource more clearly explains it. I am not specifically focus on the "X critic of Y publication" or Y's X critic", but the overall sentence structure. The section reads more like a list and is not as engaging as it could be. Aoba47 (talk) 01:09, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- I've tinkered with this just a little, but I'm not really seeing other options to avoid 'X critic of Y' or 'Y's X critic said'... ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:11, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Track listing
[edit]- Is there any information on who wrote and produced these songs?
- I cannot find production credits. By the way, this was recently discussed at Talk:Vagina (album)/GA1 and Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Albums#Can_someone_help_with_a_Personnel_section_for_Drag_Is_Magic_+_Vagina?. (Drag Is Magic is another EP by Nina West.) ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:58, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you for the response. I believe this is becoming common with digital-only releases in general. It is typically not common to release a digital liner notes or album booklets (although I always enjoy it when they do). It is a shame really because it would be great to give everyone the proper credit as it often takes a village to put these kinds of music projects together. However, since this information is not available, it is understandable why this section does not exist here. Aoba47 (talk) 01:02, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- Aoba47, Yes, I agree unfortunate. Thanks, ---Another Believer (Talk) 01:31, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- Thank you for the response. I believe this is becoming common with digital-only releases in general. It is typically not common to release a digital liner notes or album booklets (although I always enjoy it when they do). It is a shame really because it would be great to give everyone the proper credit as it often takes a village to put these kinds of music projects together. However, since this information is not available, it is understandable why this section does not exist here. Aoba47 (talk) 01:02, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
External links
[edit]- I would remove this part completely as it is not common (at least from my experience) to include links for individual music videos in an album article in this way.
- I'm going to push back here and say I've observed the opposite. I've seen music video links for singles on album page when there is not a standalone article about the song. Also, note inclusion of a similar link at Drag Is Magic. If you feel strongly about removing, I will, but this is directly related to the topic and there's no better place for this link to be stored. ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:59, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- This just boils down to a difference in style and opinion. I do not think either way is better than the other so I will not push any further on this. I just personally find it preferable to include the music videos as citations rather than external links, but at the end of the day, both approaches are serving the same function. Aoba47 (talk) 01:05, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- I'm going to push back here and say I've observed the opposite. I've seen music video links for singles on album page when there is not a standalone article about the song. Also, note inclusion of a similar link at Drag Is Magic. If you feel strongly about removing, I will, but this is directly related to the topic and there's no better place for this link to be stored. ---Another Believer (Talk) 22:59, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
Random comments
[edit]- Album articles usually have a separate section for the credits. Is there any reason why it is absent here?
- See the links I shared above re: production credits. Seems not having a Personnel/Credits section is normal for these sorts of projects. ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:00, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- That is most likely true. I have only worked on a handful of digital-only releases and this does confirm my suspicion that a more exact breakdown of credits and personnel is simply not released anymore. Again, it is a shame so hopefully it somehow improves in the future, but that is a completely separate conversation. Aoba47 (talk) 01:03, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
- See the links I shared above re: production credits. Seems not having a Personnel/Credits section is normal for these sorts of projects. ---Another Believer (Talk) 23:00, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
I hope my review is helpful. I will put this on hold now that I have looked through the entire article. Hope you are having a great start to your week. Aoba47 (talk) 08:19, 26 May 2020 (UTC)
- Aoba47, I think I've addressed your concerns, unless I've overlooked something, and I'm happy to continue revisiting as needed. ---Another Believer (Talk) 02:05, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
Good job with the article. Thank you for your patience. I will ✓ Pass this now. Aoba47 (talk) 03:05, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.