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Talk:The Victors (1963 film)

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Fair use rationale for Image:101816.1010.A.jpg

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Image:101816.1010.A.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page. If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 03:57, 27 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Body of Article Deleted - Plagirism/Fair Use issues

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The deleted - attached below - was simply a cut-and-paste of the December 20, 1963 Bosley Crowther review in the New York Times. While it lists the major incidents in the film - and thus may pass as something of a plot summary - it is, as reviews legitimately so often are, opinionated in the extreme. As such, it does not pass muster. Let someone do a neutral summary, and, if they wish, add excerpts (and links) from and to this and other reviews. JTGILLICK (talk) 07:38, 19 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bosley Crowther's review - The New York Time, December 20, 1963

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CARL FOREMAN seems to be trying to say something vital about war in this three-hour-long film, "The Victors," The message is that war is a grim activity in which men (and women, too) are rendered brutal. Neither side, vanquished nor victor, wins.

This is a fairly obvious message, but it can't be repeated too many times, provided it is put forth with assurance and a semblance of reality. But Mr. Foreman's picture has, too often, an artificial look—a look of romantic fabrication and of having been made in an overheated studio.

Too many of the sequential adventures through which he pretentiously puts the members of a squad of American riflemen fighting in Europe in World War II take place in barrooms or bedrooms, with war-battered women involved, and somehow the ironies of the situations always land the chivalrous soldiers in bed.

There's the wife-loving G.I. (Vincent Edwards) who spends so much time being sad with the little husband-loving Italian wife and mother (Rosanna Schiaffino) that it finally comes to the point where they just have to comfort one another with something more than compassionate words.

There's the tough sergeant (Eli Wallach) who finds a French widow (Jeanne Moreau) acting so frightened and lonely in a heavily-bombed villa where she has come to fetch a few mementos of her husband that he can't deny her the privilege of smuggling up with him.

There's the nice wholesome fellow (George Hamilton) who takes a terrific shine to the sweet Belgian girl (Romy Schneider) whom he discovers playing "Humoresque" on a violin in a bar and then is pathetically disillusioned when he finds out the next night that she is a schizophrenic prostitute. And there's the breezy wise guy (George Peppard) who suddenly becomes the adored of the queen of the Antwerp black-marketeers (Melina Mercouri) and has a gay time with her. But he soon discovers that he loves his duty more.

Yes, sir, it's a mighty demanding and ironic war these fellows fight.

Of course, it's not all fought in bedrooms. There's a harrowing episode in which the sergeant has to rescue his follows, single-handedly, from a cozy wine cellar in Italy. There's an incident in which some nasty G.I.'s have themselves a little fun testing their prowess as marksmen on a small dog that a new recruit (Peter Fonda) has meekly tried to adopt. And there's that unpleasant little encounter that Mr. Peppard and Mr. Hamilton have with a cheerful French waif (Joel Flateau) whom they discover to be sexually corrupt.

There is one incident that is most effectively staged, though it is rather crudely supplemented with some soundtrack trickery. It is the formal execution of an American soldier by firing squad in a bleak, snow-covered setting on — honestly!—Christmas Eve.

This incident, so grim and awesome, so shameful and shattering to watch, as a poor, frightened youth is executed for desertion by fellow American, bears an eerily close resemblance to accounts of the execution of Pvt. Eddie Slovik in France on Jan. 31, 1945—the only execution of an American soldier by the United States Army since the Civil War. And it stands out in stark and sobering contrast to the other gaudier incidents in the film.

But here again Mr. Foreman has added his touch of trickery by having the soundtrack blaring all the way through the scene with music presumably coming from an amplified radio. As the soldier is brought from his confinement and tied to the execution stake, the music is Frank Sinatra singing "Have Yourself a Merry Little Christmas," and the moment the soldier is shot, it skips to a joyful recording of "Hark the Herald Angels Sing."

Mr. Foreman is trying to do something pointed here, as he does with the frequent intercutting through the picture of newsreels of frivolity on the home front. He is obviously trying to remind us of the mockery of sentimentality in war. But the device itself is almost as specious and sentimental as what he is trying to mock.

And that's what's wrong with most of the picture it is specious, sentimental and false to the norm of soldier nature and the realities of war. Mr. Foreman's direction is generally artless, highly romanticized, and there really is not one good performance—one strong characterization—in the whole film. Eli Wallach's sergeant is the best of a lot of stereotypes.

After almost three hours of looking at it, Nobody wins.

The film was nominated for a Golden Globe (Most Promising Newcomer, actor Peter Fonda).

The Cast THE VICTORS, written directed and produced by Carl Foreman. A Highroad production released by Columbia Pictures. Running time: 172 minutes.

Trower . . . . . George Hamilton

Chase . . . . . George Peppard

Craig . . . . . Eli Wallach

Baker . . . . . Vincent Edwards

Maria . . . . . Rosanna Schiaffino

Grogan . . . . . James Mitchum

Sikh Soldier . . . . . Tutte Lemkow

French Lieutenant . . . . . Maurice Ronet

Jean-Pierre . . . . . Joel Flateau

French Woman . . . . . Jeanne Moreau

Regine . . . . . Romy Schneider

Eldridge . . . . . Michael Callan

Weaver . . . . . Peter Fonda

Magda . . . . . Melina Mercouri

Denis . . . . . Mervyn Johns

Herr Metzger . . . . . Albert Lieven

Frau Metzger . . . . . Marianne Deeming

Trudi . . . . . Santa Berger

Helga . . . . . Elka Sommer

Russian Soldier . . . . . Albert Finney

I've restored the old non-plagiarised version of the page. Colin4C (talk) 18:20, 20 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

DVD Release and Distribution

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Can anyone address the issue of the apparent non-release of this film on DVD coded for Region 1 (USA) in non-PAL format? Seemingly the most trivial motion picutres are available on DVD, yet this one classic is not, except for one Region 2 PAL DVD release that I'm aware of. Is anyone able to address the reasons which went into this? Xenophonix (talk) 16:03, 13 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Character names are not indicated in on-screen cast credits

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It should be noted that, since the character names are not specified in either the opening or closing credits, their form in the cast list is taken from various resources, primarily AFI Catalog of Feature Films, BFI and IMDb, as well as from personal viewing by editors. For the record, below is a reproduction of the cast listing in the opening credits:

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