Talk:The Ongoing Concept

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Christian band?

That the band is reviewed in two publications that focus on Christian music, Jesus Freak Hideout and HM, is enough to confirm that they are a Christian band. However, more proof would be appreciated. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:25, 23 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Your sources are not accurate to keep changing the genre of this band. I changed it back to what their facebook page says, which is "Rock". I cited everything correctly so please do not change it.

I do not understand what I am doing wrong or why you keep deleting my messages. Sitedgolden (talk) 20:55, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The sources are more reliable than the band itself. Third-party sources are needed for determining genre. That is a well-accepted policy. Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:05, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a source that says they are "Rock". http://www.allmusic.com/artist/the-ongoing-concept-mn0003139775/discography . Here is a second source https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/the-ongoing-concept/id397312441 Being reviewed on christian publications does not make a band a solely "Christian band". Switchfoot gets reviewed on sites like these yet they are not considered "Christian". Same goes for Artifex Pereo. You cannot make these assumptions. Also, none of the sources your provided say anywhere that The Ongoing Concept is a "Christian Metal" band. The source you used, Jesus Freak Hideout clearly states they are a Post-Hardcore/Metalcore band. Sitedgolden (talk) 21:36, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

AllMusic has not prose in it at all so it doesn't support rock. iTunes is not a RS: it's information supplied by the label or the band. Being reviewed in a Christian publication that only reviews Christian artists does make you a Christian band. Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:37, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

You meant the genre cloud. Genre clouds are not reliable. Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:41, 26 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Christian publication that "only" reviews Christian bands? Your wrong. Here is publication of a band on Jesus Freak Hideout that is not "Christian" http://www.jesusfreakhideout.com/artists/ArtifexPereo.asp Sitedgolden (talk) 14:46, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

My wrong what? Who knew that they were a Christian band? Cool breeze. Walter Görlitz (talk) 16:07, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Who knew The Ongoing Concept was a Christian band? No one but you apparently. Your whole argument is completely flawed and hypercritical. I'm tired of you assuming bands are something the are not. The sites you keep sourcing don't even claim this band to be the genre you are calling them. Change it, or let me change it, or I will get someone who actually cares to change it. It's incredibly annoying to know that uneducated people like you exsist on here. Sitedgolden (talk) 16:54, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps the editor who added that genre knew too. Perhaps you should ask that editor why it was added. I'm tired of you assuming bands are what they think they are or are trying to promote themselves as. Show me reliable sources that support your fiction and I'll support you as much as I'm supporting the current sources. Walter Görlitz (talk) 18:33, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

THE SOURCE YOU KEEP USING SAYS THEY ARE NOT "CHRISTIAN METAL" BAND! What do I have to do to open your eyes. There is not one single publication that claims them to be "Christian Metal" or even just "Metal". Where are you getting this information?! Show me! Also why does the band clearly state on all their sites that they are "Rock". Check their Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. They all say rock. You cannot dismiss this. Yet you use a source that has the word "Jesus" in it, and all of a sudden they are "Christian" and "Metal". What?! It baffles me I have had to explain this to you so many times. Sitedgolden (talk) 20:12, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be happy to have you find a single band listed there that is referenced as either Christian Rock or Christian Metal. If you keep insulting me I'll have to warn you for making personal attacks and then eventually be blocked if you don't stop. Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:21, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

To make it easy for you, try starting at an index page like http://www.jesusfreakhideout.com/artists/default.asp?STARTLETTER=T . Here's what's listed at that letter: "Alternative", "Alternative / Pop", "Alternative Rock", "Classic Rock", "Electronic", "Electronica / Synthpop", "Emo", "Gospel / R&B", "Goth Rock", "Hardcore", "Hip Hop / Soul / R&B", "Hip-Hop", "Indie Rock", "Indie/Worship", "Metal", "Metalcore", "Pop", "Pop/Rock", "Punk", "R&B / Pop", "Rap", "Rock", "Rock / Alternative / Worship", "Rock/Rap", "Ska", "Swing", "Tween Pop" and "Worship". No "Christian" before those genres. The closest you'll get is "Gospel", but the adjective you're looking for is MIA. But there at the bottom you'll see the following:

Disclaimer: Not every band listed here or reviewed on Jesusfreakhideout.com consider themselves a "Christian band" or "Christian artist." All of the artists are or have been linked to the Christian industry and Christian market at one time or another. We reserve the right to list or cover such artists that have at one time been linked to the Christian industry but are no longer involved in it merely to be informative to those who are looking for insight into their works' content. We also reserve the right NOT to list any artist we do not support or feel comfortable listing on JFH. And we reserve the right to remove any artist at any time for whatever reason we see fit.

WHAT? Bands may not consider themselves a Christian band but the criteria for inclusion on the website is that they think they're Christian? A reliable source has a reason to thing of a band to be Christian even when the band doesn't think it does? If only Wikipedia had a way to deal with. They do! It's called WP:RS? Who knew? Oh right, editors who actually spend their time reading what others write instead of insulting other editors do. Well, that makes perfect sense. Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:31, 28 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

The Pacific Northwest Inlander got an interview with the band that is entitled, Youth Group: Idaho band The Ongoing Concept is called up to the major leagues by Leah Sottile.HotHat (talk) 11:09, 29 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

So they self-identity as Christian ("identifying as Christian") but they don't think of themselves as a Christian band. That's pretty standard for a lot of bands. At that point, we fall back on the understanding of experts who identify them as a Christian band. Thanks HotHat. Walter Görlitz (talk) 13:58, 29 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]