Talk:The Omen/Archive 1

Archive 1

Possible bias

It appears to me the person(s) who assembled the bulk of this article had a bias against the films. If someone would please rewrite it to eliminate this bias, it would be appreciated.

Heh. I remember when that happened. I had written a far more positive article but it was constantly altered to the more negative viewpoint and at the time I was editing wikipedia much less often and didn't have the time to oppose it. I'll see if I can find time now to give this great movie its due. (NPOV, of course) -Kasreyn 08:59, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Fantômas Remake of Soundtrack

I added in the Trivia section that Fantômas made a remake of the soundtrack. Just wanted to let you people know!

--Zouavman Le Zouave 16:45, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Curse section

I deleted the curse section again, because a documentary does not qualify as a reliable source. Don't forget that wikipedia as a tertiary information provider needs reliable sources: published non-fiction books at best, but never a documentary that was filmed in the periphery of a horror movie. I don't mind if you incorporate a sentence about the docu into the text, but this section seems like fan cruft and it's technically WP:OR. Kncyu38 08:32, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

A documentary is a reliable source depending on the sources used to make that documentary. In this case, the sources are primary. The sources are the cast and crew of the film. Even if it were "cruft", that is not reason for deletion per se and it cannot possibly be WP:OR as it's not information appearing for the first time in Wikipedia. Please discuss and gain consensus before re-deleting Mallanox 09:56, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

It would still be better to write a little paragraph about that documentary and it's content (maybe as an introduction to the section) than to just list the "mysterious incidents". Could read something like:

In 2006, on the occasion of the release of the remake and the 30th anniversary of the original, the TV documentary The Curse of 'The Omen' (add IMDB reference here) was produced. It describes a number of events that occured in the periphery of the production and features interviews with some of the original production crew, among them director Richard Donner.

Just something like that, to clarify that the info is derived directly from the documentary. Kncyu38 11:25, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Good idea. I've kept it short and incorporated it into what was already there. Mallanox 01:46, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Why not. Seems ok to me. Kncyu38 22:00, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

't Hof van Commerce

Added entry on the 't Hof van Commerce song. The sampled part is very recognizable, so I thought it was worth the mention. --Caustic Armadillo 01:15, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Urban myth?

Is there a source for "The insinuation being that it was like the scene from the film and most chilling of all it happened next to a mile post indicating they were 66.6km outside the town of Ommen.". I find at least the mile-post part to be highly unlikely. Mile-posts tend to be whole numbers (60 or 70), and even if they aren't whole, I find it doubtful that any government would install a 66.6 mile-post, considering the superstitions surrounding the number.

• Well they do have mile markers in 10ths too, but governments usually do change roads, street numbers, and other things to avoid 666.

• I added the bit about John Richardson and the car crash because its true, on the night the re-release of the Omen came out there was a program on Channel 4 called 'The Curse of the Omen' in which many people who had been working on the film talked about their bizare experiences, such as the plane they hired for filming air shots of London had to be postponed, the plane they would have flown crash-landed. The hotel the director and his wife were staying in was blown up by the IRA just as they were leaving. It is true! Ian42 09:47, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

• That's not quite proof though. Just because they CLAIM its true doesn't mean it is. Any hard proof? Since every time one of these movies comes out, religious in the least, it tends to bring out urban myths that the crew propagate for better press.

• 40 miles is approximately 64,5 kilometers. I believe you guys didn't actually read what measurement system that was used. --abach 11:43, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

The Latin Lyrics to "Ave Satani"

My Latin is too rusty to tell, but does anyone know if Goldsmith based the choral text on Classical Latin or Church (Ecclesiastical) Latin? Whichever one it is should be noted in the article. Ours18 05:17, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Movies mentioned early

Such as to the devil a daughter, I don't want to live, Holocaust 2000--they all lack Wikipedia articles. Anybody know enough about those films to make a stub or two, at least? I suppose I could research them if no one happens to know. Umdunno

I was just surfing IMDB, and the plot of 'To the Devil a Daughter' seems to be as follows (I haven't watched the movie, and the reviews acknoweledge that it's sort of incoherent): {{spoilers}}

• A guy agreed to give his virgin daughter to a satanic cult when she hit 18. This was so that the leader of the cult could knock her up with his child, which would really be the devil's child. However, now the father's reconsidered, but the leader of the cult (played by Christopher Lee) isn't going to give up so easily...
• Some sort of full-frontal nudity shots, a bizarre (dream?) sequence involving a birth sequence or something...
• The father throws a rock at the cult leader, and the cult leader dies/disappears/something in the worst anticlimatic ending in movie history. 169.229.121.94 20:02, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Curse of 'The Omen' Nonsense

Long before 2005 (1984 actually) a book entitled "Fifty Worst Films of All Time" delt with some of the urban myths surrounding the film in particular: "Scriptwriter David Seltzer's plane was struck by lightning."

As the book points out for a plane to be struck by lightning is niether a rare nor (in most cases) particularly dangerous occurance. 80.229.222.48 21:32, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

A lot of the biblical references in the film were made up.

Edit the plot summary

I just watched "The Omen" on AMC - they've run all three back to back. I tried to edit the summary of the plot to add details that Damien is shown holding the hand of the President of the United States, but I was told that the changes were unproductive. I think that it underlines the sinisterness of the final scene. I am not trying to vandalize articles, merely correct them. Maybe someone will be allowed to make the corrections to the plot summary.

Yeah, before the sequel was made, I thought the implication was that he was being adopted by the cockadoody president, but that seemed to be forgotten, didn't it? And you who wrote that previous paragraph, sign or date or something, please. Not doing so makes it look like I who am answering you, said what you said.72.145.147.175 (talk) 22:02, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

POV

This article is POV and reads like a movie review. Phrases like, "chillingly effective" don't belong. 72.145.147.175 (talk) 22:02, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Ave Satani

I made this article, then realised it duplicated other articles really. Should it be merged into this one, or is there an article purely about the music/soundtrack? There's other stuff I could add about how the tune has been parodied and used in comedy. Sticky Parkin 01:53, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Controversy?

The "Controversy" section is a bit dull ;-) C'mon, a horror movie with a Black Mass soundtrack - how did this thing (or rather: series) ever make it to the cinema in "God's Own Country"? I'm really curious - "The Life of Brian" apparently had it harder. Maybe it was the Latin singing...? 93.104.122.42 (talk) 18:36, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Good Omens

I feel it may be worth mentioning that the book "Good Omens" by Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman was a satire to this film(s). It could be listed in the novel section anyways.

Hi just curious if the saying, " fipe diablo sve damien was bought up in the film at all! Trying to work out what it means. Thanks —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.181.142.15 (talk) 12:02, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

The article starts off with a false statement

The article starts off by saying..."The premise of The Omen comes from the end times prophecies of Christianity" This statement lets one to believe that all within Christianity believe in the end time prophesies that are depicted in the movie. This is blatantly false...there are many Christian theologians and lay people of the past and present that have a totally different view of Christian prophesy. A great example of a present major Christian theologian that does not even believe at all in a future world leader called the Anti-Christ is R. C. Sproul...there are many others. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.110.57.90 (talk) 05:59, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

alternate ending which was made but not show

my discussion

Endings

According to Richard Donner in a documentary "The Curse of the Omen", there are two endings. The original ending filmed but not shown should have the same ending scene but this time a child's casket in between them indicating that Damien is killed, before Robert was shot. However, speculating that since the anti-Christ might be supernatural, and might resurrect he decided to use the second ending which was shown instead.

was made when i heard richard donner said in curse of the omen that he made two endings i need to ask some you people if whther did i hear it right or wrong please watch curse of the omen documentary and improve my article okay? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Belrien12 (talk • contribs) 15:31, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Now heres the proof its at this link [[1]]it stars from 0:10 to 2:21 see it and improve it —Preceding unsigned comment added by Belrien12 (talk • contribs) 12:44, 5 October 2010 (UTC)

Yigael's Wall

Yigael's wall actually exists although not quite in the form described in the Movie. Yigael's wall obviously refers to Yigael Yadin's discovery of the wall build by King Solomon in 1971, five years before the movie debuts. The wall is famous for a number of reasons, including being considered the first archaeological proof of a biblical passage (see http://www.kingsolomonsgate.com )

It actually has been linked by some to Revelations in subsequent years.

The actual wall has no decorations known to date, although not all of it has been excavated yet. Excavations are ongoing and are currently being conducted by the South Western Baptist theological society and the Israeli Antiquities Authority at Tel Gezer.

Yigael Yadin died in 1984, but considered the wall, and its Gate Complex to be the most important event in his life. A life which included the discovery of three of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the excavation of Masada, leading the Haganah during the British Mandate, Head of Operations during Israel's War of Independence, playing a key role in the founding of Israel in 1948, personally leading the battle for the Jerusalem Road in 1948, designing the lightning air campaign of the 1967 war as as Israeli defense chief, and serving as Isareli Deputy Prime Minister in 1977.

Yigael's wall may still hold some mystery yet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.127.94.7 (talk) 18:41, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Plot?

There are pretty much no plot details. Would someone care to fix that?

Er, I think you will find that is because there is no plot! Seven religions, seven trinitys (talk) 15:38, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

Done. LovelyLillith (talk) 02:13, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

The mother, a jackal?

So much of this movie, whether the old or the new, was based out of the bible and stuff, I was wondering if the preparation of the anti-christ's birth, specifically the mother being a jackal, had anything to do with an actual biblical or mythological reference. I don't know, I guess I just really dig when movies actually reference mythology/occult rites and rituals/history rather than making things up for the sake of telling a story. If anybody may know anything about that that would be cool.

I thought the mother was a dog ???? 80.229.222.48 16:59, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Nothing Biblical about that. The appearance of "the Beast" is in Revelations chapter 13, where it says John saw "a beast coming out of the sea". The rest of the chapter details what he/it does, but there is nothing like the movie in the Bible other than it stands against God and gets a terrible wound that it miraculously survives. Also, a lot of that book is symbolism anyway. Sometimes a good movie is just a good writer. Other religious sources may say different about the Beast's details. LovelyLillith (talk) 12:00, 5 April 2011 (UTC)

In addition to the mother being a dog it was shown that the Thorn's real child was buried in the grave next to it's supposed mother & clearly showed a hole in its skull which Robert confirms to the audience that his son was murdered to facilitate the switch. Also the movie mentions that Brennan was a reformed minion of the devil having a triple 6 on his thigh which was mentioned by the photojournalist to Robert from the autopsy. Brennan mentioned he was trying to repent before he died for some unspeakeable acts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.175.113.138 (talk) 08:56, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Quality writing

I quote the last line under the title "Curse" :

"during the filming of the dog attck during the cemetary scene david warner's stuntman was injured after a dog attacked him verouciosly for no apparent reason."

Terrible style and no source. Does anyone have info about this ? 77.206.19.80 (talk) 18:48, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

There was a rash of poor quality editing on 28 August. All of this has been reverted because it worsened rather than improved the article.--♦IanMacM♦ ^{(talk to me)} 18:59, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Also, "verouciosly" is redundant with "for no apparent reason." Nahhh, just kidding! WHPratt (talk) 12:29, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Shouldn't there be a section called "Movie Sequels"?

I find it odd that the novels are all fleshed out, but there is no mention of the movie sequels.

Doubledragons (talk) 00:35, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

Portuguese name

• In Brazil it's called "A Profecia".200.252.135.73 (talk) 18:18, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Father Brennan's impalement

Can anybody tell me how the impalement was filmed? Stephen Barry Einbinder — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:39FC:C60:221:2FFF:FE3A:E281 (talk) 13:32, 5 November 2015 (UTC)

666

the omen: why is it coming out on the date 06/06/06? -You Moron 06:66, 06 June 2006 (UTC)

Are you joking? Because 666 is the "Number of the Beast" in some Christianity.. why don't you make use of wikipedia, you moron.

It probably has relevance to the three twilights that occur at sunrise and sunset. Consult any military source and you will find that strikes etc., take place at these times for very good reasons. Seven religions, seven trinitys (talk) 15:34, 13 June 2008 (UTC)

The number of Bugenhagen seems to be 420 ( memorial day in Lutheran chuch ), that´s probably how the script authors came up with the name for that figure coming up with this, let´s call it ominous, problem solving strategy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.0.180.162 (talk) 08:06, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

Is it really good?

The article seems to say that the film is a classic, and was well received. But, I've read in a couple of books that when it was released, it was ridiculed by critics, some even calling it one of the worst movies ever made. Modern books still show this as well. 156.34.238.216 (talk) 15:34, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

110% percent agreement. Rotten Tomatoes provides no reviews earlier than 2000, mistakenly interprets one ('Top Critics') review as approbation. The only two contemporaneous reviews (Ebert and (NYT) Eder) barely reached the positive side. After seeing this ridiculous flick, I had to go and find what was with the high IMDb rating, and can find nothing explanatory. What's with the 'Classic' label? Is it like Plan 9? So bad it's funny? Nope. It's not bad enough for that honor. The plot thickens... congeals... JohndanR (talk) 04:54, 1 September 2016 (UTC)

It is included in the 1978 book The Fifty Worst Films of All Time. The authors quote several negative contemporary reviews.--Muzilon (talk) 22:34, 13 October 2017 (UTC)

Hermann Hesse's Demian

I always thought that Demian was an inspiration to the name of Damien in The Omen. I always thought it was universally known, but I didn't see the connection in the article. Am I the only one who ever thought that? Nazroon 16:46, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

No. You are not. This is the only mention of a relationship between "Demian" and "The Omen" I could find on the internet so far. I also thought this would be a wide spread idea, but apprently not. I thought the same as soon as I heard his name. Of course the "a" and the "e" have been switched, but that could possibly be symbolic. There are similarities between the characters. Demian supposedly has the mark of Cian. Arguably Damien also has this mark. There are also similar religious, gothic themes running throughout both stories. However, I think the storyline of "The Omen" has not been influenced beyond a certain extent by "Demian". Anonymous 18:13, 27 October 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.199.81.91 (talk)

Anomaly

A possible anomlay for The Omen. When did Part III take place? I ask because Damian was grown up (he would have to be about 35 or 40) in Part III. Therefore it must take place 30 years after the main action of the first film. I presume that the first film took place when it was released i.e. in the 1970's. Therefore Part III had to take place around the year 2000.

The introduction to Damien Thorn on the television at the beginning of Omen III says

"In 1971 he took over his uncle's business, Thorn industries, and in seven years has turned it into the world's largest multinational, producing everything from nuclear armaments to soya bean food products. And now, at the age of 32, Damien Thorn has..."

This dates Omen III at 1978, and Damien's birth to 1946, setting Omen I circa 1949(!)

<ref>https://www.scripts.com/script.php?id=the_final_conflict_20213&p=7<ref>

As you say, quite an anomaly. 86.2.125.17 (talk) 10:55, 26 February 2021 (UTC)

Dear Proto

I'm curious as to why you see the bit about critics feeling The Omen was not Goldsmith's best score to be POV, but you leave in the bit about criticism of the movie's lack of scholarly weight. Are you sure it isn't because you simply have never heard the criticism of the film score before? Because, rest assured, among film music critics and fans alike, is an almost universal agreement that it was an insult to Goldsmith that of all his amazing work, he only earned one Oscar, and for one of his mediocre ones to boot. Cheers, -Kasreyn— Preceding unsigned comment added by Kasreyn (talk • contribs) 17:56, 12 April 2005 (UTC)

Analysis

The analysis section of this article is quite bloated, and only tangentially deals with The Omen. It seems to double as a religion vs. secularism screed. It should be pared down.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.83.76.224 (talk) 12:07, 22 April 2021 (UTC)