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Archive 1

October 2005

I started this article so the original page could be used to describe the novel and give a brief description of the franchise. This film is important enough to have it's own article anyway. Buzda - 4 Oct 2005

Movie dates

I reverted the movie dates, the correct information was there previously, and consistent with IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/find?q=neverending%20story;s=all — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cormacolinde (talk • contribs) 13:42, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Length of plot "summary"

Am I the only one who feels that the plot summary delves into a bit too much detail? I really think plot summaries are supposed to give the reader a general idea of the plot of the film, not to serve as a suitable replacement for watching the movie. I've voiced this opinion in other articles related to entertainment media (such as TV shows) and have been shot down either by fans or those who feel there is no such thing as 'too much' information on Wikipedia. I was just wondering what the general consensus was in this case. =) — Indi [ talk ] 15:04, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Agreed, the sumary itself realy drops in terms of detail about half-way through, making it seem a bit inconsistant anyway. It could easily be trimmed into a two to three paragraph summary without straying too far from what we have now. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.140.12.15 (talk • contribs) 17:53, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Breaking the Fourth Wall

People who've seen the movie are already quite familiar with the way the narative relates Bastian in 'reality' to the characters in the book. While it does technicaly go beyond breaking the fourth wall in terms of metafiction (as, for example, Atreyu can hear bastian screaming as he reads the book...) However, I find that people are genuinely ignorant of the film's further attempt to break the naratives actual fourth wall and make the characters take notice of the film audience. The most obvious example (and frequently overlooked among movie viewers for some reason...) involves the Childlike Empress's dialogue to Atreyu in which she explains to him that 'others' are sharing in Bastian's story in the same way he is sharing in Atreyu's. I've added a bit to the Trivia section, as it seems to be the best place to put it right now... if it belongs somewhere else (such as the sumary of the book, I don't know if the same method is incorperated to point Bastian to the reader) or in the summary somehow, I'd greatly appreciate this fact finding a place on wikipedia, as my experience finds it to be overlooked far to frequently by the general public. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.140.12.15 (talk • contribs) 18:02, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

In the book, a similar statement is made during the Childlike Empress' travels to find the Old Man of Wandering Mountain. Of course, since it is a book and not a movie, it refers to the reader instead of the audience. Is this point still relevant? I didn't find it anywhere in the article.ESemmel (talk) 00:16, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
I took that reference to the (real) audience as the punchline to the film, partly because the Empress used the name of the film in her explanation, so I've added a sentence about her explanation to the plot summary. I've also tidied up the next couple of sentences. I think an explicit discussion about the fourth-wall breaking would be worthwhile in a different section, but as it seems to have been long-since removed I will leave its addition or reinstatement to the disgression of other editors. Pastychomper (talk) 14:45, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Article name

If, as the article says, the movie is "better known by its English title 'The NeverEnding Story'" then shouldn't that be the title of the article? -- Chuq 08:57, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes; that is actually official policy:

Generally, article naming should give priority to what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature. (from Wikipedia:Naming conventions)

--SigPig 16:19, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

Die Unendliche Geschichte (film) → The NeverEnding Story (film) – English title is better known in English-speaking world; should therefore be named in English in accordance with Wikipedia:Naming Conventions policy; article was originally named The NeverEnding Story, but moved to current title on basis of its entry at IMDb (IMDb is NOT the final arbiter of what movies are called on Wikipedia) SigPig 16:31, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Survey

Add "* Support" or "* Oppose" followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with ~~~~

Consensus reached; page has been moved -- Chuq 00:09, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Actually, revisiting this, I don't see the need for the (film) suffix. I just redirected The NeverEnding Story here. ~ trialsanderrors 23:23, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Structural Organization of Page

I think this page should be reorganized. I see no reason to omit a well written and full plot summary, although, it would make sense for there to be a smaller summary at the top (a paragraph would do). There should also be a full analisys section. Discussion of breaking the fourth wall would best go there and could link to many other stories, plays and movies that conceptually fall into the same category. Pointing out differences between the original source material and the story presented in the movie would also be useful. -- Jcolbyk 16:19, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

I just found the following line on the book article; I wanted to move it here, but wanted to see if anyone else could verify it first before I post it.

  • In the scene where Artax the horse dies in the swamps of sadness the horse had to be tied down to a lowering platform to keep it in place. The horse was supposed to 'sink' but he really did. The platform lifts failed after "cut" was shouted, the platform got stuck under the sludge, and the horse died.

samwaltz 22:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Nice coincidence. I tried to source it a couple of days ago. Couldn't find one. (except forums and wikipedia mirrors). I wouldn't post it. Garion96 (talk) 22:09, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
It's an urban legend. I found two sites with Google (Keywords: artax horse died filming) that said the horse was trained to allow himself to be lowered neck-deep in mud. However, it still panicked, and hurt Noah Hathaway so that he had to be checked at a hospital.

The film’s most difficult scene took place in "The Swamp of Sorrow. "Hathaway spent four weeks covered in mud, during one of Germany’s hottest summers in 200 years. During the scene, Atreyu’s horse, Artax, must also be buried in the mud. The horse used in the shot had to be trained for several months, to prevent its panicking while buried up to its nose in mud. To celebrate the end of filming under such harrowing circumstances, the actors and crew engaged in a giant-and messy-mud fight.

Swamp of Sorrow

Bordering on cruelty to animals, the horse portraying Artax was chained to a lifting platform which could slowly be lowered into the swamp. To ensure that the horse would not be mentally damaged, he was carefully trained for weeks by horse coach Tony Smart. In addition, a deep ditch was dug between the accommodation halls and filled with water through which the horse was led again and again. The training was nevertheless insufficient, as R. Eyssen tells in his book, for the horse did not let the sadness of the swamp get to him and he did not go down without a fight. With an energetic jerk of the heading, the horse caused Noah to splash into the swamp and hurt his leg to the edge of the lifting platform. As dirty as he was, Noah was immediately driven to the hospital. The physician on duty must really have been surprised to treat a mudd-covered Indian boy carried by a man in a white paper suit and hearing a tale about lifting platforms, swamps and horses. Fortunately Noah was back on the set after a mere two days.

quoted from R. Esseyn —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.38.212.4 (talk) 01:02, August 22, 2007 (UTC)
This scene was also problematical to shoot for other reasons: according to what a guide on a tour through the Bavaria Studios told, they simply used mud from the riverbank of the Isar. But this mud has been full of mosquito larvae which, caused by the heat of the spotlights, eclosed. So the hole Studio was full of mosquitos, which had to be blown out with fans. --84.159.231.185 (talk) 17:53, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
It was a difficult scene to shoot but the horse DID NOT DIE. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088323/trivia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8804:8A04:D100:345A:4A6F:CD1A:9D13 (talk) 17:12, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

Release dates

Do we really need all those release dates for the different countries. I think it would be better if it only states the dates of its first international release.--NeilEvans 16:39, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I still have to check the original release, but since it was a US and German co-production I kept the US and German release dates. I removed the other ones. Garion96 (talk) 17:58, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Yeah that looks a lot better, we could go on forever adding release dates for different countries.--NeilEvans 21:16, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Neverending Story 4?

Hey, I was recently in Israel and I was flipping through European cable channels when I found a movie titled "The NeverEnding Story 4." It was in English and the actors were speaking in American accents. It's been years since I last saw the old movies (although they were favorites of mine as a kid) and almost as long since I read the book, but I managed to recognize Atreyu. I tried to sit through it for a while out of morbid curiosity, but it was just too painful. Later, I tried to look it up online, but there was nothing listed anywhere. What the heck did I see? -- 6 April 2007 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.199.180.140 (talk • contribs) 14:35, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps it was the TV mini-series that you saw, it has four episodes. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0271308/ --Mickea 10:51, 11 July 2007 (UTC)
We can hope that they will never make a fourth horrible sequel to this mediocre movie. What they need to do is make an entirely new movie that if much closer to the book, instead of a cheap imitation that doesn't follow the stories in the book. The third one was a sad attempt to make money, nothing more. --Preator1 (talk) 01:09, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

This was in the Trivia section...

  • In the scene where fantastic creatures gather in the ivory tower, you can see the figures of Gumby, Mickey Mouse, E.T. and a few Ewoks at the back of the crowd.
Honestly, I can't remember this, so I moved that here as an unsourced statement. 夢の騎士Yume no Kishi - Talk 11:31, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Just because you cant remember it you removed it? If you forget the atomic weight of gold are you going to remove that too?? 71.53.12.84 (talk) 04:15, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

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Characters list

I'm changing the characters list to a cast list similar to the ones seen in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe and the Golden Compass articles. The character descriptions are unnecessarily long, and the character's names already link to the series' main character page. Any feedback is welcome. S. Luke (talk) 10:58, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

Moonchild

A common source of confusion is what Bastian shouts when he names the Childlike Empress. The audio's not especially clear at this point and there's a lot of background noise, however we know the name is Moonchild. This is the same name used in the novel and it is further proven by it's inclusion in the script, which is readily available online (this copy comes from the film's official site) [1]. S. Luke (talk) 09:40, 22 December 2008 (UTC)

That might be in the book, and the script online, but it doesn't really make any sense in context of the film produced nor does it sound anything like what he yells. (Online scripts do not always match actual spoken dialogue 100%) I'm not going to change it because it's sourced, but put me in the "highly skeptical/I don't believe it" camp.--T. Anthony (talk) 03:19, 14 March 2010 (UTC)
The audio on the Blu-Ray is cleaned up a lot and it's much more obvious. It's also noted in the captioning. Eticketjedi (talk) 01:52, 22 March 2010 (UTC)
My DVD copy doesn't have a subtitle when he shouts the name. Is it possible that the BlueRay subtitle is some sort of ret-con of the name? Just because the script contains the name does not imply that it's film canon, especially if it's inaudible and absent in the subtitles. That's very compelling (and intential) evidence that the name was not meant to be known, from the audiences' point of view. If that was all were had, I would say the name should not be mentioned in the plot summary because there's (intentionally) no on-screen proof of it. Maybe in the trivia section. However the BlueRay complicates this issue. Perhaps this should be mentioned in the article; the fact that all original versions of the film, excluding the most recent released version (released 23-26 years later), explicitly keep the name secret. Elnauron (talk) 02:38, 22 November 2010 (UTC)
I agree with this. I happened to re-read this article today, and was shocked that the article mentioned "Moonchild" as her name, seeing as how for decades now everyone associated with the film, and every fan of the film, has claimed that the name is unknown. No source every claimed otherwise until the BluRay showed up, apparently. User:KyleGoetz —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.11.202.195 (talk) 19:05, 8 January 2011 (UTC)
You mean the name is indistinguishable. Inaudible means unable to be heard. That's not the case, since you can clearly hear that something is being yelled. Whether or not the name was **meant** to be heard is speculation. It's just as likely that it's an error of sound mixing. -- 70.58.92.168 (talk) 21:54, 15 September 2011 (UTC)
The reason "moonchild" is hard to understand is, that the actor had to pronounce it in a way in which the German dub would fit the movement of his mouth. In the Germam version it's however clearly "Mondenkind" ("moonchild").81.210.137.13 (talk) 14:56, 23 September 2011 (UTC)
I stand corrected; indistinguishable is a better word to use. But the fact remains that on my DVD copy, the name Bastian yells has no captioning in all 3 closed caption languages (English, French, and Spanish). That is a deliberate action, taken by the people responsible for the movie, to conceal the name. Elnauron (talk) 19:26, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
I know this is old, but I always wanted to know what the name was. Bastian says he is going to name her after his mother, who 'had the most beautiful name'. Was his mother REALLY named Moon Child??? I have not read the book.Robbmonster (talk) 14:11, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

CamelCase

I would like to know the justification for spelling the title of the film (but not the title of the book) in CamelCase. Graphic designers do all sorts of things with typefaces when creating posters and related materials, but we don't carry that over onto Wikipedia with articles called Harry Potter AND THE GOBLET OF FIRE or happy-go-lucky. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 163.231.6.85 (talk) 15:48, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

I'd suggest moving the article to the grammatically correct spelling as well. All four of the "External Link" movie databases spell the film "The Neverending Story", with only one also giving the camel case spelling used here.--Roentgenium111 (talk) 17:55, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
  1. Those two examples don't work because they're fairly normal cases; "The NeverEnding Story" is a very obvious and unusual choice.
  2. Movie databases aren't very helpful; see the above move request... though it's funny that IMDb uses "NeverEnding" these days.
  3. Various releases of the trilogy keep the convention. It's not particularly consistent throughout the years, but at the same time it is. I don't really see why we should use anything other than "NeverEnding", given the circumstances. Despatche (talk) 15:04, 22 April 2012 (UTC)
I also strongly suggest moving the article to the grammatically correct spelling, despite the number of things that Despatche doesn't really see. CamelCase looks idiotic, is found on only some of the posters for the film, and it's inconsistent with the translated title of the book after which the movie was named. Not only that, but it's inconsistent with the title as it appears within the movie. Do you need more evidence than the cover of the book as it appears in the film? If so, that, right there, pretty much automatically disqualifies your opinion. Look at the cover of the book Bastion is reading in the film. See? I know that the visuals of the movie's title screen are confusing to some people, but title screens often have quirky visuals. I understand that Despatche thinks CamelCase is cool. So what? Wikipedia isn't his coloring book. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:880:C080:430F:7571:6623:F62D:FA1F (talk) 23:26, 13 April 2019 (UTC)

Garden of Eartly Delights

The ivory tower very closely resembles the towers in the left and center panels of Heironymous Bosch's Garden of Earthly Delights. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Garden_delights.jpg —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.146.148.67 (talk) 16:00, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

Remake?

Does anyone have any details on a potential remake? See IMDB: [2] KhalfaniKhaldun 19:22, 21 July 2010 (UTC)

Let's hope it never happens. More original stories please!Robbmonster (talk) 14:18, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Influence on Making of Children's Movies / Family Films

If anyone has sources, could you add a section for the influence of the movie on the making of children's films? I remember seeing a documentary years ago about the evolution of children's films, and that The Neverending Story was one of those films that broke out of restrictions of the genre. Thanks. Thelema418 (talk) 21:05, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

Countries

Hello. I am finding a couple of issues with regards to the country of origin. For example, Allmovie lists the countries as the United States, UK and Germany. However, the American Film Institute does not include the Neverending Story anywhere. Thoughts? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 00:40, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

BFI and New York Times reckon it's just German, so I would go with that. Betty Logan (talk) 08:29, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
That doesn't explain why it was film in English. If it a purely german production, it would have been filmed in German. Usually when a story's film rights are sold, the film company which purchases those rights owns the intellectual property rights of that film. They then hire a producer and the producer is in charge of getting the film completed. If we can determine which company purchased those rights, that should help determine the country of origin. As the article is written now, it says that it was a joint German/American film. There are some sources that back that up, although none of them that I can see explain how the film went from book to screen, or who purchased the intellectual film rights to the property. I would say at this point that since the article, and some sources, state that it was a joint German/American film, that it should stay that way for now. However, this is the English Language Wikipedia. Of those two countries, the United States is the English speaking country. Therefore it should defer to the US spellings and date code. This article was also started with the US date code and per WP:DATERET should retain those dates.--JOJ Hutton 12:56, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
Per MOS:FILM#Lead section, we do not have to identify multiple countries in the lead sentence: "If the film's nationality is singularly defined by reliable sources (e.g., being called an American film), it should be identified in the opening sentence. If the nationality is not singular, cover the different national interests later in the lead section." This is especially applicable when one of the countries is not obvious, and we need room to explain co-productions, which are different from film to film. Here we can say "English-language" instead as some other articles have done, and we can explain the American and German backgrounds later in the lead section. Erik (talk | contribs) 16:27, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
Country of origin is debatable and of course somewhat ambiguous in this case. But I think the major decision here is to how the date(s) of release are to be formatted in the infobox. Sjornes has changed it twice last year and again yesterday without any explanation in the edit summery. The first time that a date was added was with a US date Format here. Certain guidelines are in play here. One is WP:RETAIN. The other is WP:DATERET, and another is WP:STRONGNAT. The article has a stronger tie to the United States than to any other English speaking country.--JOJ Hutton 16:41, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
I cannot find any reference to American involvement other than its distribution by Warner. This article in People magazine states "there are two versions, one in German, the other in English" and it is "the most expensive German production in history". Historically it was not uncommon for German companies to produce two language versions—one for the home market and another for the English market. Given the fact it was produced by German companies in Germany with a German crew it does seem to satisfy WP:TIES on balance. Betty Logan (talk) 17:03, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
If it was just two versions, a German language film and dubbed to an English version, that would an easy call, but the film was created in English. If was dubbed German (I assume it was dubbed, could just be subtitled in German). German films are filmed in German, not English.--JOJ Hutton 17:10, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
Basically, per WP:FILMRELEASE, if the film was released in the country of origin indicate the film's earliest releases, even if it was released a different country. Hence that is why I changed it. For example, some films like The Fifth Element is a French-produced film, but the original language is English. Therefore, I think we should do the same with regards to the NeverEnding Story. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:17, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
It is curious as to why it was filmed in English, since films are usually filmed in the native language. This is what I dug up: it was apparently a contractual obligation with Warner who invested some money: It's also true that we filmed THE NEVER ENDING STORY in English, with young Americans playing the major roles, but this was only to meet Warner Brothers, the American investor, half-way and still maintain complete freedom and final control over the last cut. On the basis of this it appears Warner was just an investor. The Fifth Element is a good example — it is rare but not unprecedented for foreign films to filmed in English. Betty Logan (talk) 18:34, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
Investor means that money changed hands. which means that they helped finance the film, which means that they are part of the project. If an American company is part of the project then they are in a joint venture with whatever company is also providing finance.--JOJ Hutton 18:45, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
Being an investor doesn't necessarily make you a co-creator. Many films are internationally financed these days: Avatar had British finance, Fight Club German, Terminator 2 French, the Spiderman films Japanese, but they were still made by American studios, with the copyright attributed to American companies. Many films are financed through equity partners these days such as Intermedia which is made up of investors from all around the world. Other times investment can sometimes just amount to pre-selling distribution territories. According to the BFI Warner wasn't a co-producer nor did it share in the copyright, so this movie isn't a co-production in the sense that it helped to mount the film, it just had some outside investment. The difference between the two are explained in more detail at the Lumiere database. Betty Logan (talk) 19:04, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
It definitely is a German film production, not an American one. The unusually high budget for a German film made it necessary to find co-financers (co-funding, pre-contracts on distribution) and to produce the movie for the international film market from the very first beginning. These both aspects are the reasons why it was shot in English instead of German. And this again is the reason why the majority of the cast were from English speaking countries (but not all). I know this from intense research on the film's genesis; it was my favourite film through my childhood days. My Sources: ISBN 9783453020016 (Remy Eyssen: Der Film "Die undendliche Geschichte". Story - Dreharbeiten - Hintergrundberichte) and ISBN 9783423102605 (Ulli Pfau: Phantásien in Halle 4/5, Michael Endes Unendliche Geschichte und ihre Verfilmung). -- Großkatze (talk) 17:31, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

RFC: Should we mention the NeverEnding Story as an "English-language German film"?

Should we mention the NeverEnding Story as an "English-language German film"? As with The Fifth Element, The NeverEnding Story was obviously a foreign film and as with some others, it's rare if it is done in English. However, in those particular cases, the film was produced in a foreign country and recorded in the English-language. In addition, WP:FILMRELEASE states that film release dates should be restricted to its earliest releases, whether at a film festival, and the release date of the country of origin. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:56, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Survey

  • Support the phrase "English-language German film". There seems to be the contention that The NeverEnding Story is a German-American co-production on the basis that Warner provided some investment. I disagree that the investment is a factor in this case based on the following reasons:
    • Investment is different to production. Investment can be provided by several means such as through international financiers and pre-selling distribution territories. Investing in a film does not automatically confer on you a share of the copyright. The BFI indicate that Warner is not a copyright-holder.
    • Films such as Avatar and Fight Club and many other Hollywood films received international financing, but we don't consider them international co-productions; they are considered American films.
    • There is no cultural or legal criteria for defining the nationality of a film. The Lumiere Project draws a distinction between co-producers and investors in determining nationality (See "Country of Origin").
    • It is original research to deduce nationality by our own criteria, and we should rely on sources. Both the British Film Institute and the New York Times state it is a German film.
    • {{Infobox film}} states for the "country" field: For reasons explained below preference is given to reliable databases like BFI, AFI, or Variety. Some call it the country(s) of production, while other simply call it the country(s) or nationality. If there is a conflict of information in various reliable sources, then list only the common published nations. Alternatively in the case of conflict, consider leaving this field blank and discussing the issue in the article.
  • Betty Logan (talk) 19:26, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Support per Betty's points. Having worked on Fight Club, I've seen Germany listed on seemingly equal ground with the United States for the film even though its involvement was minor. The proposed phrase here works for me. Erik (talk | contribs) 20:07, 1 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Support. English-language foreign films happen sometimes. Betty Logan's arguments have won me over on this film. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 16:29, 14 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Support. It is a German production, of a German novel. Part of the funding was provided by Warner Brothers, and the film was prepared for an English-Language Release. It was not produced by Warner Brothers specifically.Colliric (talk) 01:55, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Maintenance

The 18:05, 22 May 2017 edit modified the former introduction sentence "The NeverEnding Story (German: Die unendliche Geschichte) is a 1984 West German-produced English language epic fantasy film based on..." into the wrong "The NeverEnding Story is a 1984 American epic fantasy film based on...". This edit is unsourced, ironically arguing "I cannot find any citations saying that this is not solely an American production." in the edit summary. I revert this, according to the talk page results in the section "Countries" and in this section here, as well as according to my sources ISBN 9783453020016 (Remy Eyssen: Der Film "Die undendliche Geschichte". Story - Dreharbeiten - Hintergrundberichte) and ISBN 9783423102605 (Ulli Pfau: Phantásien in Halle 4/5, Michael Endes Unendliche Geschichte und ihre Verfilmung). -- Großkatze (talk) 17:56, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Ypres and the Swamps of Sadness

The Swamps of Sadness have stylistic similarities to post-WW1 representations of Ypres. If this has been noted by worthwhile authorities, please could it be mentioned. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JDAWiseman (talk • contribs) 18:57, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

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