Talk:Cultural impact of Madonna

List of artists influenced by Madonna was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 25 April 2021 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Cultural impact of Madonna. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

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Section sizes

Section size for Cultural impact of Madonna (52 sections)
Section name	Byte count	Section total
(Top)	5,044	5,044
Background	2,932	6,854
Critical scope	3,922	3,922
Culture	624	18,661
Global	4,052	4,052
American culture	3,406	3,406
Popular culture	8,172	10,579
Other areas	2,407	2,407
Multiculturalism	4,423	17,076
Perceptions and impact	9,239	9,239
Representations	3,414	3,414
Contradictory perspectives	34	22,174
Scope and ambivalences	1,813	1,813
Generalized cultural and social criticisms	3,984	3,984
Racial and cultural appropriation	3,202	3,202
Globalized and Transcultural criticisms	9,722	9,722
Censorship and death threats	3,419	3,419
Image	1,150	32,342
Public persona	5,716	5,716
Reinvention	1,925	1,925
Appearance	1,678	1,678
Fitness	4,724	4,724
Personal and professional relationships	5,664	5,664
Age and cross-polarization	3,273	11,485
Timeline	1,671	1,671
Views of Madonna	3,124	3,124
Impact	3,417	3,417
Madonna and critics	2,555	11,772
Madonna's views	2,923	2,923
Views on criticisms and on Madonna's responses	6,294	6,294
Cultural depictions	1,096	19,943
Science and cultural tributes	4,320	4,320
Cultural critics' lists, reference works and polls	4,053	4,053
Superlatives in popular press	5,699	5,699
Sobriquetes on popular culture	4,775	4,775
Music industry	1,378	17,732
Markets, genres and popularizing of things	7,431	7,431
Female figure and paradigm shifts	8,923	8,923
Musicability	656	14,486
Ambivalences	1,868	1,868
Vocals	4,392	4,392
Songwriting	4,498	4,498
Production and involving process	3,072	3,072
Influence on other entertainers	3,420	34,200
Examples	25,270	25,270
Depictions and tributes by other musicians	2,837	2,837
Other fields	2,673	2,673
See also	786	786
Notes	26	26
References	30	30
Book sources	24,184	24,184
External links	247	247
Total	225,557	225,557

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[+]

Earwig's Copyvio Detector: + (Not sure where "redtri.com" came from. Displayed in that tool but no results with "control + f" inside art.)
Checklinks: +

Some of current sources cited in the body of article could have a hardvard style but I've use Cite web/Cite book/Cite Journal with links provided for a faster checking-info. When applicable, those with hardvard style ("Book sources") have the link in url=. Others are available via Google Books or if aren't longer available an alternative way to verify it would be via Worldcat and see what library have a copy (WP:REX could help).
Certain cases of "authors" with an entry in Wikipedia could have a different occupation attributed. This also could be a false impression since are generally backed in profiles/third-party sources externally. The same goes with those without an entry with us.
As a subjective topic of given a treatment for a person (whatever is a contemporary or a historical figure) prose have multiple quote attributions (intertextuality could be present but aren't "hoaxes"). Many or technically all points could be backed in large proportion by more multiple references either by English and non-English sources but I'm trying to reduce overcitation (such as in "cultural trends"). However, all sections are supposed to be part of a significant point of view. At the same time trying to maintain a generous ratio of an academic/intellectual point of views in all possible sections and using WP:WORLDWIDEVIEW.

--Apoxyomenus (talk) 06:43, 5 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Size and possible split

Article now contains more than 600 references (should be one of those with most references) and more than 20 sections. I'm currently working in the article mostly adding information instead removing content, tbh. At some point I would brought these issues here but an IP from California boosted that idea today. I also think part of that size came from the reference formatting, although I still maintaining what I said 11 months ago above, in regards the fast-checking process to anyone about online sources (books or other print sources).

As far I can tell from my own experience in this journey, the literature on Madonna is extensive on almost any topic. Someone could argues that some topics are very common in most artists in our present day, but virtually every Madonna's usage of something/topic reviewed here, can shows both impact for Madonna and beyond her own figure (because she is typified as a precursor, archetype etc). In contrast, her main article mostly shows a Madonna in her role as a singer (her primary known profession, indeed), but certainly her role as a musician became secondary in both popular and academic writings, as is repetitively described by multiple agents in their respective areas. Alongside with this and beyond a generalist reputation about her "scandals", there is a "different Madonna" in the view of group of authors: a Madonna for marketers/analysts, a Madonna for dance critics/oriented in this vein, a Madonna for the contemporary art critics, etc because her own career has a reference or she explored all of these areas, and/or by implication have had a certain impact in multiple ways. The "Cultural impact of Madonna" is a reflection of that and perhaps, beyond.

Perhaps, someone could argue there exists a repetitive superlatives in virtually all areas. Is not my guilt. I mean (and this is part of WP:WEIGHT as far I understand), because that treatment has been a constant in her own literature, from both positive and negative ways in any of her eras and in academic/press views. Almost all of these points are backed by a variety of authors, and shows that almost every topic is not a minor point of view, including those superlatives ("the first", "the most", "the biggest", "more than anyone"). Preferably to avoid WP:PEACOCK issues, additions/quote have author attributions. Also, almost everything is contextualized like any social-cultural topic, with date/time (including year, decades, and century as views usually changes, mainly in artists) and if possible in our recommendation of WP:WORLDWIDE (beyond American or British's dominant perspectives, or outside Anglosphere view).

Like it happened with many articles of The Beatles or Elvis Presley from a cultural sense (Madonna can be seen as a female equivalent), I'm a supporter that more than one of these topics can even have a separate article if is necessary, eg (randomly): Madonna as a feminist icon or Ageism in Madonna etc. Be advise, despite the current size of this article, each topic can be larger in their own forms. This means, if more than one of these article exists, it can be presented in the perspective through decades and even adding Madonna's own point of view (she has an opinion of everything; and this article barely contains less than 10 quotations from herself), and adding sections like contradictory perspective, counter-responses and a large etc without failing in a possible WP:CFORK. A concern outside this, could be WP:OTHERSTUFF in other artists, because Madonna's articles are often viewed to inspire other off-topics in many artists (see recent examples of Shakira), but Madonna's own literature is far away different or detailed by itself. I think, at least, current article coverage most part of the meaning of Madonna by other authors.

Pinging regular contributors to Madonna's articles @Bluesatellite:, @Johnny Gnecco:, @Chrishm21: for their inputs, or other involved users in this article @Twixister:, @SNUGGUMS:, @DuncanHill: or @SchreiberBike:, are welcome for a second opinion and suggestions.

Overall, I'm open and if for some, there exist a section or point to be reinforced. Identify possible bias, reorganization or everything to improve the article, will be appreciated. As well, fixing problems with grammar, wordy sentences, etc are more than welcome: English is not my primary language and also, researching has been enjoyable but exhausting and this one of the reasons why there exist overlinking and other things, because the constantly additions/reorganization. Thanks in advance, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 05:07, 26 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

While I honestly have no idea how a split could be efficiently carried out, trimming this down wouldn't hurt. We can do without the "Honorific nicknames and epithets for Madonna" or "Critics' lists and polls" sections as those feel like filler above all else. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 13:00, 26 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

Madonna revistapelo 1985.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 17:36, 17 May 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Proper Article Trims

The page dosen't really look great, I get bored while reading it. it should be trimmed because lots of contents entered are too much based on one citation. And the cultural omnipresence and mordern culture section are saying the same thing to me, the critics are even saying the same thing which should have been entered once. It should be well composed for readers like, Cultural impact of the Beatles and Cultural impact of Taylor Swift. I know they aren't featured article, but they're well constructed. Since i'm not one of the page contributors your help will be needed. @Bluesatellite:, @Johnny Gnecco:, @Chrishm21: __Yotrages (talk)

As an involved user, I concur. An IP accurately described the article as "very long" in 2022. I hope I can now satisfy a reasonable size. I also did my best to divide the public perception of Madonna into distinct topics after that, which were initially covered here, and each of which, I assume, try to attempt to incorporate those popular reception/depictions/criticisms she faced. I also made an effort to be as cohesive as possible to incorporate here mainstream media/academic reception, and to address the spectrum of positive/negative reactions to a concise tone providing attributions/similar reactions. Perhaps, also significantly, now is focus more on the real "cultural" reception rather than the "musical impact" (chart records, etc). I tried to use high reliable sources, non-obscure publishers and well-recognized popular media (The New York Times, Billboard) etc. @SNUGGUMS: and @PHShanghai: so that perhaps you two can assist in correcting grammar/unnatural sentences, cohesiveness or fancruft after the effected changes. I also tried my best with the language. Thanks, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 01:20, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree Apoxyomenus, I would say maybe the lede could use a little summarizing but the article in it of itself is detailed and has accurate information. PHShanghai | they/them (talk) 11:49, 17 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, PHShanghai. I hope so. I was waiting to see possibly inquiries/complaints but so until now, seems things are fine. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 18:23, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Missing reference

@Apoxyomenus: Your edit here added a reference — {{harvnb|Charone|2022|p=online}} — that does not point to a citation. Can this error be fixed? —GoldRingChip 13:02, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

See below. Thanks, --Apoxyomenus (talk) 18:23, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Missing reference

@Apoxyomenus: Your edit here added a reference — {{harvnb|Kennedy|2013|p=281}} — that does not point to a citation. Can this error be fixed? —GoldRingChip 13:06, 29 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: Thanks for pointed out this error. Here is this book, Kennedy (2013). The Kennedy Chronicles: The Golden Age of MTV Through Rose-Colored Glasses. Macmillan. ISBN 1250028728. And the other one, I don't remember as of now (perhaps the source is in one of my sandbox). However, I removed both books considering are backed sources that don't compromise the information given. Otherwise, let me know. --Apoxyomenus (talk) 18:23, 30 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]