Jump to content

Talk:The Little Guy

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Former good article nomineeThe Little Guy was a Media and drama good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
June 12, 2012Good article nomineeNot listed
July 16, 2012Good article nomineeNot listed
August 7, 2012Good article nomineeNot listed
Current status: Former good article nominee

GA Review

[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:The Little Guy/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Gen. Quon (talk · contribs) 03:54, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Image: Beef up the FUR rationale a bit. The image itself is fine and illustrates the article well, it just needs something on the image page so it isn't tagged for deletion in the future
  • Lede: "While Hannah (Laura Allen) and Rex (Dylan Minnette) try to deal with each others death, in both green and red realities." This is a sentence fragment. I'd change it to "Meanwhile, Hannah (Laura Allen) and Rex (Dylan Minnette) try to deal with each others death, in both green and red realities."
  • Lede: "…television commentators, who praised its storylines. Commentators…" The use of commentator back to back is a little oddly phrased. Maybe sub one for "critics" or "reviewers"
  • Plot: Wikilink main characters and add who plays who after their name appears
  • Plot: Per WP:TVPLOT, plot summaries shouldn't be over 500 words. At a little over 1,000, this one is overly long and needs to be cut down. Cut it down and I'll review it later.
  • Production: Was the director deliberately trying to mimic the pilot's feel, or was that just what the tv critic felt was happening? Its not very clear in the source
  • Reception: On Ref 10, make the "Note: Information is in the section titled "w/e 13 May 2012", listed under Sky1" small using
  • Reviews: Like the Plot section, this is overly long. The AV Club review takes up basically half the first paragraph, which is gigantic. I'd recommend cutting all of this down, as per WP:TVRECEPTION, because a majority of the section is comprised simply of "he said… 'Quote'"
  • Reviews: Add a citation to the quote box
  • Reviews: "TV Fanatic's round table team including Carissa Pavlica, Lindey Kempton, Carla Day and Nick McHatton praised and enjoyed the episode" -> "TV Fanatic's round table team, including Carissa Pavlica, Lindey Kempton, Carla Day and Nick McHatton, were pleased with the episode."
  • Reviews: "McHatton simply wrote that the episode did "really well"." Did what really well?
  • Reviews: The second paragraph also has issues with "He said… QUOTE" or "She said QUOTE". Remove some of these quotes and paraphrase what they actually said. For instance, "Mr. Brown from TVReview.com said he "loved the excitement of the show" could be rendered as "Mr. Brown from TVReview.com positively critiqued the level of excitement that the episode contained and noted that the "loved" the entry". (Note, this was a sample quote I just made up)

Clean up the plot and review sections and I'll comb over them in a bit. Right now they need a bit of work.--Gen. Quon (talk) 16:30, 6 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There is only one day left, and there's quite a bit of work before this can be promoted.--Gen. Quon (talk) 03:34, 11 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to close this GAN as Unsuccessful. The Plot and Reception areas are still really, really dense and hard to navigate through. Before this is nominated again, I'd recommend a peer-review first, to get rid of the kinks.--Gen. Quon (talk) 14:10, 12 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA Review

[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:The Little Guy/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: TRLIJC19 (talk · contribs) 03:48, 12 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

 Doing... TRLIJC19 (talk) 03:48, 12 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'll read through the article, and list any existent issues below. At a start, there is no reason to quickfail. TRLIJC19 (talk) 03:24, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Issues

[edit]

I break down the issues in a chronological way, that makes it easy to locate where the issues are. If you question or disagree, with an error listed, please leave a note, under the issue, explaining why.

  • Infobox
    • As noted in the previous failed GAN, the rationale for the image needs to be significantly expanded.
      •  Done
  • Lead
    • Paragraph 1
      • "It was written by series creator and executive producer Kyle Killen, and was directed by executive producer Jeffrey Reiner." -- Unlink executive producer, it is a common term.
        •  Done
      • "Commentators noted that the episode was not as good as the previous episode, "Pilot", which was originally broadcast on March 1, 2012." -- Remove the note about when "Pilot" was broadcast; it's irrelevant.
        •  Done
      • "Despite this, the final scene was criticized by critics, who claimed that the show has "enough elements already"." -- This should be removed, as the info on the last scene was not revealed in the article at that point, and one line about critical response in the lead is enough.
          •  Partly done
      • "It ranked second in its timeslot of the night, behind The Mentalist on CBS." -- Remove "of the night"; it's ungrammatically correct.
        •  Done. Remove it fully.
    • Paragraph 2
      • "In this episode, Michael deals with a case of the death of a homeless man, Bernard Mackenzie." -- Actor who played Bernard Mackenzie?
        • ✗ Not done. He was dead from the beginning of the episode till' the end. That being said, nobody can play him
      • "Meanwhile, Hannah and Rex try to deal with each other's death in their respective realities" -- Add the characters' full names, link them, and add the actors who play them + links to the actors.
        •  Done. Added to the main lead
      • "Tricia speaks to Captain Carl Kessel (Mark Harelik) about his accident, and who they setup for it." -- This sentence is unclear.
        •  Done
  • Plot
    • Paragraph 1
      • "The episode opens in the "green reality" (where Rex is alive and Hannah is not)." -- Add characters' full name, links, and actors + links. Also, erase the parentheses, ultimately reading: "The episode opens in the "green reality", where Rex Britten (Actor Name) is alive and Hannah Britten (Actress Name) is not."
      • "Rex (Dylan Minnette) is complaining that his newly-washed clothes smell "weird" and "funny"." -- Unlink character + actor name, and just write 'Rex'.
      • "Michael (Jason Isaacs) remembers seeing his wife use fabric softener when she washes clothing and realizes what his doing different."
        • Put Michael's full name
        • Write: "[...] remembers seeing his wife, Hannah, use fabric softener [...]"
        • "[...] and realizes what his doing different." -- Ungrammatically correct; should read: "[...] and realizes what he is doing differently.
      • "After running a second test, however, the coroner confirmed that someone had given MacKenzie potassium chloride to induce a heart attack." -- Link potassium chloride.
      • "The killer placed it in the diabetic MacKenzie's insulin where it would be "untraceable"." -- Link diabetic to diabetes, link insulin, and put a comma after it.
      • This plot section is abnormally long. There are several instances of unnecessary detail, for example: "Rex complains, and claims that Hannah (Laura Allen), Rex's deceased mother in the "green reality", cooked "actual food". Later in the "red reality" (where Hannah is alive and Rex is not), Michael discovers that Rex was having his mail delivered to his friend Cole's (Logan Miller) home and asks Hannah if she knew anything about it. She says that she does not, and is emotional about Rex. Hannah wonders how it is so easy for Michael. However, Michael states that is not easy."
      • "Soon after, Michael sees a list of homeless people who have died and notices that Bernard MacKenzie is on the list." -- Actor for Bernard?
      • "He tells his partner in the "red reality", Efrem Vega (Wilmer Valderrama) to get the file, although the case was closed due to lack of leads." -- Explain what the red reality is, because the previous explanation has been deleted with the unnecessary detail. Also, comma after (Wilmer Valderrama).
    • Paragraph 2
      • "Dr. Evans claims that Michael should "actively pursue the connections that his mind creates between reality and his dream", and about him "emotional" issues, while Dr. Lee notes that Michael's two realities are "problems" not "tools", however, Michael claims that he is fine with both realities." -- Run-on and unnecessary.
      • "Meanwhile, Hannah goes to Cole's house and tells him that she opened the box, and he confirms that there’s a camshaft inside." -- Last name and actor for Cole? Also, replace curly apostrophe.
      • "While Michael and Vega interview various people in the neighborhood for Mackenzie's death. Michael finally spots a homeless man (Jeris Lee Poindexter) who recognizes MacKenzie's photo and talks to him." -- Are these sentences supposed to be connected? Also, not 'for Mackenzie's death', but 'in regard to Mackenzie's death'.
  • Comment: After reading through everything, there are way too many prose issues in the article for me to list, and I am not continuing to list them. Get rid of unnecessary details in plot, and then get the whole article copyedited by a great editor. Perhaps a request at WP:GOCE/REQ; you have seven days. I am not continuing the review until it is copyedited sufficiently. TRLIJC19 (talk) 04:03, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment to the Comment: I suggested a copy-edit in the first GA, and it was never done.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 04:27, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Hi Gen. Quon, I noticed you had suggested a copyedit, and it does not seem like many changes were made since you failed the article last time. Do you think another fail is in order, because I had a hard time deciding whether or not to put this article on-hold. Let me know, TRLIJC19 (talk) 04:48, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
      • Considering hardly nothing has been done, prose wise, to fix this, I'd say yes, but it is completely up to your discretion.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 13:15, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        • Per mine and Gen Quon's reasoning; I am failing this article until prose issues are addressed. The prose is just too problematic to allow a hold. Please do not renominate it until you get it copyedited sufficiently. TRLIJC19 (talk) 16:07, 16 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA Review

[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:The Little Guy/GA3. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Gen. Quon (talk · contribs) 03:24, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I'll give this guy another whirl ASAP.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 03:24, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

General
  • There's two disambiguation pages Link
    •  Done
Images
  • I still don't feel the image has an adequate rationale. It's just a dead body on a table. It needs to critically commented upon and being something that isn't easily described.
    •  Done. It was commented by The A.V. Club and Paste
      • The issue I have with this isn't that it wasn't commented on. It has to do with WHY we need to see it. There isn't anything special about it. You could just as easily say there is a dead body on a table with two dudes standing over it, and I would understand it just the same. Furthermore, the Paste and AV Club reviews don't really even mention it on the page - at all.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 02:01, 1 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Intro
  • Intro: "The episode has generally received positive reviews, with many commentators criticizing the episode's ending, and claiming that the episode was not as good as the previous episode, 'Pilot'." This sentence is a little nonsensical because it says the episode received positive reviews, but was criticized. Reword into: "The episode has generally received positive reviews, although many commentators criticized its ending, noting that the episode was not as good as the series pilot."
    •  Done
  • Intro: "…survived the accident…" and "…his son Rex Britten (Dylan Minnette) survives…" match the tenses (should both be past)
    •  Done
  • Intro: "In this episode, Britten deals with a case of the death of a homeless man" -> "In this episode, Britten investigates the death of a homeless man"
    •  Done
  • Intro: "while Captain Tricia Harper (Laura Innes), shows growing concern over his behavior" Who is his? The captain's or Michael's?
    •  Done
  • Intro: "A little guy is mentioned in this episode, "The little guy" was later revealed to be Detective Ed Hawkins (Kevin Weisman), who made his official debut in "Say Hello to My Little Friend"." What does this even mean? Explain what a little guy is.
    •  Done
  • Intro: The word "episode" is mentioned ten times in the intro. I'd weed this down
    •  Done
Plot
  • Plot: "use fabric softener when she washes clothing" -> "used fabric softener when she washed clothing"
    •  Done
  • Plot: "who runs a fertility specialist" How do you run a specialist? Isn't a specialist a person?
    •  Done
  • Plot: Maybe link or explain camshaft
    •  Done
  • Plot: "angry little guy shoot" This is unencylopedic, but I assume it is a direct quote, so add quote marks
    •  Done
  • Plot: "Nat figures she does not have the know-how to pull it off…" -> "Nat figures she does not have the computer skills to pull it off"
    •  Done
  • Plot: "Sam claimed" -> "Sam claims"
    •  Done
Production
  • Production: "Reiner was trying to maintain the visual style set up by David Slade in the pilot episode." This is based on a reviewers opinion, I'm not sure its what Reiner was trying to do.
  • Production: "According to HitFix, Reiner was put on the "evil conspiracy responsible for the car accident". Ummm, what does this even mean? I looked at the source and I don't think it has anything to do with Reiner...
    •  Done. Removed
  • Production: "A little guy is mentioned in this episode, "The little guy" was later revealed to be Ed Hawkins (Kevin Weisman), who made his official debut in "Say Hello to My Little Friend"." -> "A titular "little guy" is mentioned in this episode; this character is later revealed to be Ed Hawkins (Kevin Weisman), and made his official debut in "Say Hello to My Little Friend"."
    •  Done
  • Production: How do you know the shadow is the "little guy" in "Ricky's Tacos". I'd get a better source for that line
    •  Done. Its removed
Themes
  • Themes: ""The Little Guy" was noted for introducing what really happened in the accident, with Kessel and Harper discussing their involvement in the accident at the end of the episode." -> ""The Little Guy" was noted for beginning to unravel the mystery as to to what really happened in Britten's accident, with Kessel and Harper discussing their involvement at the end of the episode."
    •  Done
  • Themes: I'm not sure that mythology should link to Mythology; they're quite different things
    •  Done
  • Themes: "Alan Sepinwall of HitFix observed that them dissuccing in the accident" Wha? Let's rephrase that. "Alan Sepinwall of HitFix observed that Harper and Kessel's knowledge involving the accident"
    •  Done
  • Themes: On a second read-through, the second paragraph of this section makes no sense. Many of the sentences change tenses and are connected in ways that are unintelligible. For instance
    • "Alan Sepinwall of HitFix observed that them dissuccing in the accident was "in the red world — and was not something Britten was present for — supposed to tell us that this is the "real" world and Rex is dead?"" What does that even mean? You start with Sepinwall's observation and switch to a question.
    • "He also noted that was it "Killen has an absolutely brilliant plan for what's going on, why the Britten family was attacked, why Mike is suddenly shifting from one reality to the other"." Again, you start with an observation. It should be "He also noted that "Killen has an absolutely brilliant plan for what's going on, why the Britten family was attacked, [and] why Mike is suddenly shifting from one reality to the other"."
      •  Done
    • I feel this section needs to be completely re-written, as it is dense and hard to navigate…
Broadcast and reception
  • Broadcast: Is there a cite for the Canada airing?
    •  Done. Removed
  • Broadcast: I'd merge the AV Club "praised the episode" line and its grade line.
    •  Done
  • Broadcast: Does the quote box really matter? I know one of the commentators mentioned that, but what does it mean? It needs to be explained in the article, and not just the box.
    •  Done
  • Broadcast: A majority of the section is "he said… he wrote… he said… he concluded." Mix it up a bit.
  • Broadcast: "not as tragically serene as the premiere episode" or as good as the pilot" Missing a quotation mark in here somewhere...
    •  Done
  • Broadcast: This whole section is still in dire need of a copy-edit, the whole "he said... he said" thing gets old and grating fast. I see that someone "copyedited" the article earlier, but a more extensive one is seriously needed.
    •  Partly done
References
  • For the Barb.co.uk, I went to look up the numbers, and couldn't find it. In the article, it says it aired on Sky Atlantic, but on the reference, it says Sky 1. It didn't air on Sky 1 that week, at least as far as I can see. Switch to Sky Atlantic.
    •  Done

This article still has quite a few issues. A full-on copyedit is desperately needed, and has been since the first GAN. Considering the last GA review was only a few days ago and full copy-edit hasn't been undertaken (as requested by the last reviewer), this article is hanging in the balance. Get it copyedited and fix the issues and it could pass. Right now, there are some really sticky section that need fixing. On hold for seven days.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 17:35, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I have addressed most of the issues. I am still awaiting a copy-edit, though. Thanks for the review! TBrandley 18:40, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok a few issues still left. I'll leave this open; hopefully a copyedit can go through.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 23:00, 22 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I recommend leaving a request at the Guild of Copyeditors, because you say this article was "copyedited", yet outstanding issues still exist. This has happened before with the insufficient "copyedits" you've gotten for Awake and List of Awake episodes. The GOCE members usually do a good job, and if you indicate that it is a current GAN, you may get it copyedited within 7 days. TRLIJC19 (talk) 01:34, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Ok. I have submitted the request. Thanks for commenting! TBrandley 01:49, 23 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to fail this. It's been on hold for well over two weeks, and no significant changes have been made to the prose. When this is copyedited, and only when it has been, it can be renominated for GA, but until then, work out the serious prose kink.--Gen. Quon (Talk) 16:30, 7 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:The_Little_Guy&oldid=1210683247"