Talk:The Joshua Tree/Archive 1

Archive 1

Pop culture

The "Joshua Tree" is a tree in the iPod game "Song Summoner" that you need to climb after reaching the town of "Electric Ladyland". This should be added? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.181.56.253 (talk) 19:26, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Individual song articles

I added articles for every song on the album, according to the Wikipedia:WikiProject Songs guidelines. They could use some work, though. --Kristbg 20:35, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Im another Wikipedia user who has created an article for the song "Mothers of the Disappeared" but I cannot figure out a way to post it because every time I create a link for it, it redirects it to the Joshua Tree article. Can anyone help me?

The old article "Mothers of the Disappeared" was determined to not meet the criteria of WP:NSONGS; that is to say, the song is not notable enough, and there is not enough developmental information (pretty much the only other criterion) on the subject to warrant an article. If enough information becomes available, that can change. MelicansMatkin (talk, contributions) 19:59, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

Eulogy, not Elegy

I think. Maybe someone should fix this?

Elegy is correct, as it is here "used for a poem of mourning," see Elegy. --Fantailfan 18:06, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Cover art

The "US" cover art isn't really specific to the US; it was used for the CD edition everywhere (including the UK, until 2000, when it was re-released with the undistorted cover). The "UK" cover art was used for the vinyl edition everywhere (including the US).

I think the vinyl cover is the canonical one (the CD and cassette covers are variants on it, after all), so let's use that in the infobox.

--typhoon 17:57, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

No, seriously. --typhoon 06:41, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

By the vinyl and UK covers, you mean the wider, undistorted image? I'd support you on that one. It was on my 1987 cassette verion of JT. It's an icon. THe distorted one is, well, just muck. The expressions, mood and landscape are just obliterated. But currently with the distorted one at the bottom is good, right? --Merbabu 06:47, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh, i see what you mean - the distorted one isn't just US? I have seen the distorted cover in Australia, but the "widescreen" has made a comeback. --Merbabu 06:48, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

This main image is not the original UK LP cover, where the typography ran along the top, although at least it's the right photograph. It seems to be from a CD reissue.

LP was still the dominant format in 1987 - the main image should therefore be of the original LP.

Sources

I've tagged this article for not having sources- it's not anything super major, although this statement sets off a red light for me:

It is considered by many their commercial and critical breakthrough.

I have heard it said before too, but others would argue that The Unforgettable Fire was the breakthrough album. Either way, statements like that need to be sourced. There's also a lot of history on the album, and information on the meanings of the songs. That's good, but unfortunately almost all of it is unsourced too. We shouldn't be able to go and infer what the artists meant and felt unless we have a source where they say it themselves, or a reputable music publication makes the assertion.

While it could be a challenge, it shouldn't be too hard to get citations for an album of this magnitude.--Wafulz 22:52, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

I found them. You can find teh information on the DVD The Joshua Tree, a documentary about the album.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.134.85.142 (talk • contribs)

Death of the tree

How terrible. That image was an icon. It looks great in the colour photo in the link i added. [1] Merbabu 13:54, 11 April 2007 (UTC) -I contributed most of the "Themes" section, and much of the information is from the "Classic Albums - U2: The Joshua Tree" DVD (2000). -Pearsong, October 6, 2006.

GA

Considering how well-written and sourced this article seems to be, I'm very surprised that it hasn't had a GA nomination up to this point. If nobody objects, I would like to nominate it for GA. Thoughts? MelicansMatkin (talk) 22:46, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

No objections before I submit? MelicansMatkin (talk) 20:48, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Working title

It's been mentioned many times by the band (most recently in the Deluxe Edition of the 20th anniversary re-release) that the original working title for the album was "The Two America's", taken from the fact that the band was trying to balance the "mythic idea of America" and the "realty of America". I can't help but feel that this should be added into the article (maybe under History?), but I'm not sure where in that section to place it, or how to phrase it. Could anybody give some help on this? MelicansMatkin (talk) 23:02, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Merge proposal

A number of songs from this album have been tagged for merging here. These articles fail WP:MUSIC:

Most songs do not merit an article and should redirect to another relevant article, such as for a prominent album or for the artist who wrote or prominently performed the song. Songs that have been ranked on national or significant music charts, that have won significant awards or honors or that have been performed independently by several notable artists, bands or groups are probably notable. A separate article is only appropriate when there is enough verifiable material to warrant a reasonably detailed article; permanent stubs should be merged to articles about an artist or album.

If any of these songs have charted, received any awards, been featured in major films or TV shows or anything else that makes them notable according to WP:MUSIC, please update these articles (with references) and remove the {{tl:mergeto}} tag. Otherwise, please merge them into this article for the album.

Could you please list the songs from this album that you would like to see merged? MelicansMatkin (talk) 16:25, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Red Hill Mining Town --Rtphokie (talk) 17:05, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Ref problem

While looking for something else I clicked on some of the ref links here and #24 comes up as a 404 error. It's site is still there just the direct link is dead, so the ref needs to be updated. How are the rest of these on-line refs? Kresock (talk) 05:22, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

What I have done another case like this is (no crap) to look at the history back to when it was first added and put the accessdate= flag to that date in the cite. Since it's a php page it is ephemeral and should not have been used as the cite url. Fantailfan (talk) 18:00, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

This from WP:CITE may help. Essentially it says that a ref should not be removed simply because it's link has gone dead. (assuming of course that it was suitable in the first place). --Merbabu (talk) 01:30, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Genre - why just "rock"?

I went over this on the Rattle and Hum discussion page, but I think "rock" is a very vague way to describe the album. Roots rock seems like a much better genre to term this album as. It's defined as "a style of rock music that draws material from various American musical traditions including country, blues, and folk." The band made an effort to explore these genres for this album and it shows. "Bullet the Blue Sky" has a Southern rock sound to it. "I Still Haven't Found..." is gospel-influenced. "Running to Stand Still" is a country/folk ballad. "Trip Through Your Wires" is a blues/country romp. "In God's Country" is very much a folk rocker. "Roots rock" seems to envelope the album pretty well, if you ask me. Y2kcrazyjoker4 (talk) 19:53, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

I responded to this query on the Rattle and Hum talk page too. MelicansMatkin (talk) 19:55, 22 July 2008 (UTC)

It's a rock album first and foremost. Can't get around that, and it must be included as the main genre. Any others including the ones your talking about would be sub and/or additional genres. --Merbabu (talk) 03:00, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Doesn't "roots rock" encompass just that? "Rock?" Y2kcrazyjoker4 (talk) 03:18, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

No - because the album is not all "roots rock" (which is fairly hard to reference reliably and goes into WP:OR territory). Genres are a nightmare - the more specific one tries to be, the more problems one runs into. --Merbabu (talk) 03:57, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

In any case, it makes more sense to list "roots rock" in the infobox than blues-rock, Southern rock, country music, folk rock, etc. all of which influenced this album. Here are some sources that support "roots rock": 1 2 3 Y2kcrazyjoker4 (talk) 03:45, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

I submit more sources that says "roots rock" or "American roots music": 4 5. I really see no harm or inaccuracy in using "rock" as the primary genre and "roots rock" as the secondary genre. I mean, surely there must be an acceptable way to indicate the plethora of American music U2 dabbled in on this album. Furthermore, the first sentence of the article's body uses "U2 by U2" as a source to indicate that blues, country, and Gospel were used as influence. All of those things are covered by roots rock. I think it is a perfecty reliable, concise way to convey that. Y2kcrazyjoker4 (talk) 04:24, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

OK - i don't fully agree or disagree - I think we can find a compromise. But I'm busy now, will need to respond later. But, we cannot remove "Rock" from the genre spot in the info box. regards --Merbabu (talk) 05:25, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

That's fine, we don't have to remove "rock", but I think we need to expand on that and explain the album's sound, even if not all the songs adhere to the "roots rock" genre. Not all of Achtung Baby is alternative rock, but we still consider that album for the most part an alternative album. My point is even though not every song on The Joshua Tree is teeming with blues, country, folk, and gospel, but it has no doubt played a huge part in the album. 206.195.19.43 (talk) 13:27, 23 July 2008 (UTC)

Removal of oral sex claim

" According to critics and staff that worked as janitors in the recording studio when the band was recording "Bullet Blue Sky " drummer Larry was receiving oral sex from Madonna " I removed this, as it was falsely sourced to a u2.com page. Feel free to revise it back if you can properly source it. 75.67.195.144 (talk) 17:02, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

subliminal With or Without You claim

anyone have any comments on the current unsourced claim that WoWY has an argument between Eno and Byrne in the background? The journalist (Fred Capidulupo) seems suspect since google report no other hits. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mal11 (talk • contribs) 02:24, 10 December 2008 (UTC)

Can't be bothered to do this

I was wondering if anybody knows much about the inspiration and motivation that the Joshua Tree area in CA provided the band during or around the recording of the album.

I believe the US release date of "The Joshua Tree" was March 16, 1987. Can someone confirm?

RIAA says March 9. Walmart says March 16, but I can't see anywhere else that does. --Fantailfan

Reception/Rankings

Any reason why there are two of these? Can we cut it down to one? --Merbabu (talk) 12:20, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

One was for the 20th anniversary remastered edition, one was for the original release. It's certainly silly to have 2 boxes like that in the same section, so we can either integrate them into one, or put the anniversary reception box with the anniversary release section. Y2kcrazyjoker4 (talk) 16:11, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Cover to use

There seem to be all sorts of different versions of the sleeve cover that were used for different formats and regions, but particularly confusing is the version that was used on the original vinyl release in the UK. Discogs shows the unstretched image with stacked text with the moniker "blue label", as well as the unstretched image with horizontal text with the moniker "gold label". Both released in 1987 in the UK for the vinyl format. Can anyone clarify what the deal is? Y2kcrazyjoker4 (talk) 16:56, 1 April 2010 (UTC)

Here's the deal: When the album was released in 1987, there was the LP version with the wide photo and the title at the very top in very small print link. There was also a CD version released at the same time with the compressed/distorted photo link. The CD artwork with the wide photo was the re-release version, which was released in 1999 in Europe plus other countries link. Hope this clears everything up. With that being said, the original LP cover should be the one in the infobox, and the other covers should simply be mentioned, but need not be displayed –Dream out loud (talk) 23:01, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Performing/personnel credits

I wanted to start a discussion about this because it's a bit of a gray area. The album's liner notes don't really credit the band's performing contributions. With the exception of Bono's harmonica and The Edge's backing vocals, their primary instruments are not listed in the liner notes. I think it is reasonable to still list Bono as lead vocals, The Edge as guitar, Adam as bass, and Larry as drums, since those are their de facto primary roles in the band. Not to mention their accounts of the songs' inceptions mention them playing these instruments and coverage of the album by reliable sources mention each member as playing these instruments.

The area that is hard to pin down is whether Bono played guitar or The Edge played keyboards on any of the final versions of songs. We do have accounts of Bono playing guitar during the sessions (e.g. U2 by U2 says he came up with "In God's Country" this way and some of his playing is uncovered in "Exit" on Classic Albums) and The Edge playing keyboards (e.g. U2 by U2 says he began playing piano chords during the improvisation of "Running to Stand Still"). However, we can't actually say for sure whether these performances made it onto the final album. Just look at the previous album, The Unforgettable Fire: documentary footage of the sessions shows Bono playing guitar, but the liner notes only credit him for "lead vocals". Thus, unless I am missing a source that directly credits Bono's guitar and The Edge's keyboards, I think we have to limit it to what we conclusively know, per WP:V. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk • contributions) 15:49, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

I think we can safely give Bono the guitar; if I remember correctly (which I may not since it's been a while since I last watched the full thing), in Classic Albums the mix of "Exit" they were looking at was the final mix, which was where the guitar was mentioned. Scratch that, I just remembered that they demonstrated other components in the final mix, so that can't be right. Hmm... I'll try and dig through some of the books I have later tonight, like U2 Reader; that might have something in there. Melicans (talk, contributions) 17:00, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

Interesting Clayton quote

Searching through some old archives, I found an interesting quote from Adam Clayton in 2007 that could work as a bit of reception in this article; and maybe in the articles from "Streets" to "Still" as well:

"It's a sign of the significance of the record that the opening five songs are still in our set.

"We sometimes try to put Still Haven't Found to bed or drop With Or Without You, but they find their way back in. If you think of Streets as this huge stadium anthem, it's amazing to listen to it again on the original album - how the hell did we screw it up like that in the studio? It sounds so thin, like someone is playing the bass with boxing gloves on!

"But if I hear weaknesses when I listen to it today, I'm also pretty impressed that those guys made that record when they did."

The reference is <ref>{{cite news |title=It's a miracle of a record... much better than the band who made it at the time - Bono |first=Simon |last=Cosyns |newspaper=[[The Sun (United Kingdom)|The Sun]] |page=74 |date=30 November 2007}}</ref> Melicans (talk, contributions) 15:51, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

I think I've read that quote from the liner notes of the album's 20th anniversary box set. I'll have to double-check. I would think some of those items would be great additions to the Legacy section in discussing how the band views the album in retrospect. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk • contributions) 16:08, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Luminous Times

In the article, it is referred to as both "Luminous Times (Hold on to Love)" and "Luminous Times (Hold Onto Love)". I'm not sure which variant is correct, but one should probably be picked and stuck with throughout. Melicans (talk, contributions) 19:25, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Good pickup - U2.com lists it as "on to". Not sure what the official liner notes/track listing for the song on the single release says. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk • contributions) 19:27, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

From memory, I think my "With or Without You" casette also has it as "on to", but I won't be able to check that until I get home (assuming I can find it). What does the bonus CD on the remaster call it? It may be another case of "Ultraviolet" vs "Ultra Violet". Melicans (talk, contributions) 19:45, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

The 2007 remaster of The Joshua Tree says "on to", as well. Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk • contributions) 19:50, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

And the vinyl says the same. Looks like it was just a typo then. I'll fix it. Melicans (talk, contributions) 19:55, 2 November 2011 (UTC)