Talk:The Firebird/GA1
GA Review
[edit]The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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Reviewer: Chiswick Chap (talk · contribs) 10:54, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
- I'll do this one. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:54, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
- The section order doesn't seem quite right. Why is 'Synopsis' after 'Subsequent ballet performances'? Perhaps the latter should be after 'First recordings'; or it could I suppose be demoted to be 1.4 within 'History'.
Moved under "History"
- "including Rimsky-Korsakov, Borodin..." - perhaps gloss "including the composers Rimsky-Korsakov, Borodin..."
- Added
- "Several ideas from Rimsky-Korsakov were used in The Firebird," - better would be active voice: "Stravinsky used several of Rimsky-Korsakov's ideas in The Firebird, "
- Changed
- I'm a bit nervous about 'Subsequent ballet performances'. The productions here are presented as if they were the only ones since 1934 (cough). "Later productions include...", or something?
- Those specific performances mark something significant; Ballets Russes de Monte Carlo was the first revival, New York City Ballet was the American premiere, National Ballet of Canada was the first televised production, and Mariinsky Ballet is the return to original choreography. Though, I do see how the last paragraph is unnecessary, so I cut that.
- Thanks. I've tweaked the wording to say those things in the text, as without them the selection looks random to the uninitiated.
- The table in 'Structure' would be more readable if a bit wider, say with columns at 400 not 250.
- Expanded
- "Saint Petersburg" is actively misleading in the 'In popular culture' image caption. If we're going to name any place there it'd be "Austria's Salzburger Pfingstfestspiele". And, the image should be moved, say to 'Subsequent ballet performances' as it's a direct performance, not a pop adaptation.
- St. Petersburg is naming where the Mariinsky Theatre is from, but I do see how that's confusing; I cut the place.
- There is an error with the Commons category, "Commons link does not match Wikidata – please check". The cat is "Category:The Firebird (ballet)".
- Fixed
- French spellings in the article include Kachtcheï and Kastcheï; English spellings include the familiar Koschei as well as the unusual Kashchei. Maybe we could cut down on the variants a bit?
- The alternate spellings are in the titles of the episodes or in other names, and Koschei is mostly used in the prose. Do you think the titles should be altered, or should we change Koschei to the other spellings?
- Ah, what an omelette. We should not change Koschei to the three other spellings, no, as it's now the usual form. I'd suggest a footnote explaining that the other spellings are French transliterations/20th century English ditto.
- Footnote added
- Ah, what an omelette. We should not change Koschei to the three other spellings, no, as it's now the usual form. I'd suggest a footnote explaining that the other spellings are French transliterations/20th century English ditto.
- The alternate spellings are in the titles of the episodes or in other names, and Koschei is mostly used in the prose. Do you think the titles should be altered, or should we change Koschei to the other spellings?
- Why don't we have an image of Koschei at the top of 'Creation'? The one at the top of that article would do fine, or we could crop a detail from it. It would be nice to give it a bit of context (even if only a caption) to say he is under a spell of immortality and appears in numerous tales.
- Added a drawing by Golovin at the top of 'Creation" and captioned it with some info about Koschei.
- Commons has Golovin's wonderful original 1910 set design, File:L'Oiseau de feu by A. Golovin 01.jpg. You might want to use it in 'Creation'.
- Added in below the poem excerpt
- 'Suites and other derivative compositions': "Furthermore, besides..." is a bit klunky. "most other derivative compositions": I guess you mean "most of Stravinsky's derivative works"?
- Cut furthermore, changed the section title to "Suites and other versions". I think "most other derivative ..." does not specify by Stravinsky because of the Agosti piano reduction at the bottom of the section.
- The "most other derivative compositions" opens the window to the musical adaptations of the score in pop culture, etc., so it's definitely an uncomfortable generalisation. I'd suggest we divide the Stravinsky derivations (this section) and everyone else's (somewhere else in the article).
- On second thought, I'm not sure if Agosti's composition is even worth keeping in the article. The arrangement seems to be the most famous of Agosti's work (according to a few quick Google searches) and so wouldn't it make more sense for it to have its own article? What do you think?
- The "most other derivative compositions" opens the window to the musical adaptations of the score in pop culture, etc., so it's definitely an uncomfortable generalisation. I'd suggest we divide the Stravinsky derivations (this section) and everyone else's (somewhere else in the article).
- Cut furthermore, changed the section title to "Suites and other versions". I think "most other derivative ..." does not specify by Stravinsky because of the Agosti piano reduction at the bottom of the section.
- "When it was originally published, the score contained many mistakes, which were only fixed in 1985." This feels somewhat out of place in '1919 suite'; doesn't it belong in 'Creation'? I suspect more should be said about the mistakes, how so many were made, why they didn't get fixed for so long, and what happened in 1985 to trigger the work.
- I found that the citation was rotten and it wasn't archived, so I found a different source that clarified it; the errors are exclusive to the 1919 suite, and the source didn't state that it was fixed in 1985. So, it's been rephrased, but I did leave it in "1919 suite" because the errors are exclusive to that version.
- "opening ceremony of Sochi 2014" is a bit cryptic. Winter Olympics?
- Specified
- Wikilink Michel Fokine.
- Linked
- Wikilink Sergei Diaghilev in 'Background'.
- Linked
- Inter-language link Robert Brussel (Robert Brussel).
- Linked
- Spot-checks come up fine.
That's about all from me, it's a nice tidy article. Chiswick Chap (talk) 14:34, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
- @Chiswick Chap: I think I've addressed everything. Thanks for the review! MyCatIsAChonk (talk) 18:12, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
- MyCatIsAChonk: I'm happy with all but 2 of the replies, see above. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:54, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
- @Chiswick Chap:@MyCatIsAChonk: Sorry for barging in but I do have one more suggestion. I just don't think we need to mention the Mariinsky in the subsequent ballet performance section since it's one specific performance of a ballet that had been performed numerous times. It also seems rather random when the rest of the section talked about the first revival, a major rechoreographed version by Balanchine and Robbins, and a film. (I also took the liberty of changing one image caption from Mariinsky Theatre to Mariinsky Ballet) Corachow (talk) 18:36, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for fixing the caption, a definite improvement. I think MyCatIsAChonk has answered the other bit above. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:47, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
- I see. But I still don't think it's necessary. The Fokine Firebird is often performed. For example, the Royal Ballet had performed it once every few years since 1954, and most recently in 2019. (See the Royal Opera House archive for the list of performances, and here for the credits) It's not a situation like the Rite of Spring where the original choreography was neglected for decades. The Fokine choreography has always been around, but there are also choreographers who made their own take of Firebird. Corachow (talk) 22:04, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
- Also, according to the Mariinsky website ([1]) they began performing the Fokine Firebird in 1994. The performance specified is a 2011 tour appearance in London. I think it seems random. But if you disagree just ignore everything I said. Corachow (talk) 22:13, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
- Hi Corachow, thank you for your concern. I've cut the sentence about the Mariinsky ballet production. Additionally, there is reasoning for inclusion listed in the rest of the paragraph. Chiswick Chap, I've addressed your concerns above. MyCatIsAChonk (talk) 00:42, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
- Also, according to the Mariinsky website ([1]) they began performing the Fokine Firebird in 1994. The performance specified is a 2011 tour appearance in London. I think it seems random. But if you disagree just ignore everything I said. Corachow (talk) 22:13, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
- I see. But I still don't think it's necessary. The Fokine Firebird is often performed. For example, the Royal Ballet had performed it once every few years since 1954, and most recently in 2019. (See the Royal Opera House archive for the list of performances, and here for the credits) It's not a situation like the Rite of Spring where the original choreography was neglected for decades. The Fokine choreography has always been around, but there are also choreographers who made their own take of Firebird. Corachow (talk) 22:04, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for fixing the caption, a definite improvement. I think MyCatIsAChonk has answered the other bit above. Chiswick Chap (talk) 18:47, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
- @Chiswick Chap:@MyCatIsAChonk: Sorry for barging in but I do have one more suggestion. I just don't think we need to mention the Mariinsky in the subsequent ballet performance section since it's one specific performance of a ballet that had been performed numerous times. It also seems rather random when the rest of the section talked about the first revival, a major rechoreographed version by Balanchine and Robbins, and a film. (I also took the liberty of changing one image caption from Mariinsky Theatre to Mariinsky Ballet) Corachow (talk) 18:36, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.