Talk:The Charge of the Light Brigade (poem)

Poetry Mid‑importance

	Poetry portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Poetry, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of poetry on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoetryWikipedia:WikiProject PoetryTemplate:WikiProject PoetryPoetry articles
Mid	This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.

Military history: British / European Start‑class

This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles

Start

This article has been rated as Start-class on the project's quality scale.

This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion not met

Associated task forces:
/
	British military history task force
	European military history task force

I have moved the information about the poem to this page, and am going to work on making it into an article. There isn't a whole lot to write, but I think it deserves a page by itself, so here goes. --Mathwizard1232 02:02, 4 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Artwork?

I know I've seen some artwork on the internet about this famous charge, but can anybody confirm it is in the public domain and then post it? (or try to get the author to put it under the GPL) Sire22 16:59, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

What sort of "artwork" were you thinking of? There are some paintings and pictures of the battlefield in the main article about the Charge of the Light Brigade -- SteveCrook 18:13, 21 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The use of Fenton's "In the Valley of the Shadow of Death" is erroneous. 1

The poem itself

The poem itself must be in the public domain by now. Why not just include it on the page? - 65.116.35.251 22:55, 13 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

See WP:L&P. The poem is probably too long for this article. There is, of course, a link to the Wikisource which includes the full text. --Midnightdreary 03:05, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The editors of Charge of the Light Brigade included the whole text. It's a few screenfuls, but it makes the "References in Popular Culture" lines easier to read (several of which should probably be on this page instead, as they refer to the poem) JohnWhitlock (talk) 21:56, 26 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The article is about the poem, but I don't think it's sensible to include the whole thing - that's what Wikisource is for. It makes especially little sense to include it in the article about the charge itself. I've removed the text from both articles. Hairy Dude (talk) 13:57, 7 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Such a retard decision. If I did not read the talk page I wouldn't even know there is a link to the poem via wikisource, especially since that the wikisource box is so small and inconspicuous. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.75.139.150 (talk) 08:04, 2 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I had this exact same problem. I came here wondering why there is no actual text, and now have discovered that I should go back to the main page and search for the wikisource.

At the very least there should be a big heading LINK TO THE TEXT OF THE POEM 2A04:4540:6534:DF00:A9AF:91AE:A0AE:7EEC (talk) 15:09, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This page used to include the poem, and it is now worse off for its absence. Other pages contain the full text of much longer poems, such as John Keats' Ode to a Nightingale.

Rekov (talk) 21:56, 23 October 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Famous lines

Should include the lines "Theirs not to reason why, / Theirs but to do and die"... AnonMoos (talk) 12:55, 22 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

text

Shouldn't the article have the full text of the poem. 155.212.94.216 (talk) 17:45, 15 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, fun (read stupid) wiki rules. It was considered (by someone) to be to long for the article. Lord knows, it is perfectly acceptable and encyclopedic for an article to refer to a line in a poem and not tell what the line acually is. Sadly, I can not list the third stanza of it from memory. Only one poem I could, actually.

                                          07:52, 2 November 2008 (UTC)Strife

Why no mention that it's actually a very bad poem? It is metrically unsound, it has no musicality to speak of, and the diction ("someone had blundered") is just plain awful. The poem only survives (and was only ever popular) because of the patriotism it appealed to and aroused, certainly not because of any artistic merit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.163.106.71 (talk) 14:11, 6 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You'd have to find some kind of source for that, you can't just say something that loaded.129.171.233.78 (talk) 14:28, 16 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Especially since the poem is actually a meditation on the conflict between patriotism and common sense. It's as much an anti-war poem as it is a celebration of British national pride. Also, technically Wikipedia isn't *supposed* to contain any simple opinions in the body of the article. Now, if you wanted to create a section for the article entitled "Criticisms", that'd be fine, but you'd also find yourself swamped with criticisms OF the criticisms. And it's not supposed to be "metrically sound" -- it's supposed to have a basic form which is interrupted by incongruous and jarring parts, much the way a mounted charge in 19th century warfare would have sounded. 134.173.13.19 (talk) 00:49, 26 September 2009 (UTC)[reply]

...or maybe it's a celebration of heroism, valor, and courage, sans anti-war message. This very thing, an imagined anti-war theme, is asserted in the article (first paragraph), with no citation - such a conclusion is a personal interpretation (and one not supported by the text of the poem). But props on pointing out that the rhythm is done that way on purpose - I think you're absoultely right. Also, use of the word "blunder'd" is one of the most brilliant strokes in the poem. Not only is the word jarring (to steal your word) but the ungainly sound is evocative of its meaning, that a serious mistake or error has been made... one that would cost many brave souls their lives. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.177.13.200 (talk) 21:03, 18 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thin Lizzy connection

"Massacre" based on "The Charge of the Light Brigade"? Are you kidding me? The song is obviously about Indians. I mean, the intro melody has a pretty "indian" feel, mention of buffalos and canyons - standard western motifs. Or, just listen to what the guys from the band have to say (around the 2:15 mark). I'm gonna remove that line from the article. Roda (talk) 21:55, 11 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Popular Culture

There is another reference in popular culture: Peter F Hamilton has one of the characters in "Judas Unchained" (volume 2 of the Commonwealth Saga) quoting lines from this work while they chase the Starflyer, trying to prevent it from escaping to its ship. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.31.89.127 (talk) 00:42, 4 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I added a small topic about IPC. Apparently there has been some content before and deleted since so not sure what the policy will be here. A comment about youtube-linking though. I understand that my source probably violates copyright but I can't imagine how one can source some TV material without doing so? Ghen.eu (talk) 22:48, 24 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The poem was also mentioned in "The Blind Side", when Michael Oher wrote an essay on it. 108.66.250.186 (talk) 19:39, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The line "Ours not to reason why, ours but to do" is also spoken by Vaughan Glaser in a 1944 Frank Capra movie called Arsenic and Old Lace. Jinger (talk) 00:33, 20 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

correctness

Into the valley of Death Rode the six hundred.

Is it

Unto the valley of Death Rolled the six hundred?

My memory says so.Unfortunately, i do not have references for this. Can anyone put it the correct way? alpamati 11:51, 25 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by V.narsikar (talk • contribs)

Nope, I have the Bedford Introduction to Literature sitting beside me, and it says "Into the ... Rode" for each of the 6 stanzas. 24.208.37.3 (talk) 02:36, 7 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

opinion in the summary

He was the poet laureate of the United Kingdom at the time of the writing of the poem and the work reflects his compromised ability to express anti-war, populist sentiments while still reflecting his patriotism and remaining in the Crown's favour.

This sounds very much like an opinion, and needs some citation or source. Does not seem like it should be in the introductory section of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.225.207.97 (talk) 22:31, 20 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Doesn't sound like an opinion, it IS an opinion. Further, the poem is not about a conflict between patriotism and common sense but about military disciplin and common sense, or rather, military disciplin and self preservation. In the heat of combat soldiers do not fight for patriotism but for their comrades, their "unit" their regiment. That is the inherrent strength of the British miltary system, as true today as it was during the Crimean . —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.168.199.189 (talk) 22:42, 9 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Correctness again

The 1923 edition used for Wikisource which has "the soldiers knew" differs from Tennyson's own manuscript here: http://web.archive.org/web/20070407071840/http://etext.virginia.edu/britpo/tennyson/TenChar1.jpg which seems like a definitive primary source. His handwriting is reasonably clear, so I have corrected as per WP:QUOTE. Straw Cat (talk) 11:20, 18 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

"Peanuts"....

...made a reference to the poem in 1974. A²Kafir (and...?) 03:05, 25 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I removed the section "based on a mistaken war story"

It was very poorly written and difficult to understand, and inasmuch as I did understand it, it seems to be incorrect.

The gist is that the text of the poem contradicts the actual history, but I can't see any such contradiction. One of the references it cites claims that Tennyson's poem is wrong, because the charge wasn't "a disaster", since it did accomplish something. However, a charge can be disastrous without being utterly futile, and furthermore the poem never states that there was no benefit, only that "someone had blundered", which does certainly seem to be the case. There's another citation which seems entirely irrelevant.

If there is some actual information to be had here, someone will have to rewrite the section in a way that clarifies what that information is.

Here is the removed text:

The poem is based on a misunderstanding of the battle, in which the Light Brigade actually lost only 110 killed out of 666 men. A reporter for a London newspaper got it wrong, writing that it was a disastrous charge by the Light Brigade, according to Andrew Lambert, professor of naval history at King’s College London. The Brigade, sent into a nearly hopeless situation due to command confusion and incompetence, actually fought its way out of a Russian trap and got back to its own lines. Tennyson used that mistaken story as the basis for his poem, and refused to change it even after he learned of the mistake.

And here are two references it cited:

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2014/03/13/history-crimean-war

http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/victorians/crimea_01.shtml — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.94.180.144 (talk) 13:01, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Should the name be in italic?

The poem was published on its own. As a pamphlet, for troops in the Crimean War. So, according to MOS:TITLE, this should be italic. Thanks. In Memoriam A.H.H.^{What, you egg?}. 16:31, 29 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

You what? Really?

"There, it was distributed in pornographic form at the behest of Jane, Lady Franklin"

Well that creates an image I'm not going to forget in a hurry. It'll probably be on youtube somewhere.

46.227.49.108 (talk) 14:27, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Please fix two links

The link that was 9, meant to direct to the publisher’s (Penguinrandomhouse.com) listing for TERRY BRIGHTON author of Hell Riders: The True Story of the Charge of the Light Brigade is now invalid. They no longer even list the book and the former link now directs to an explicit pornography advertising page instead, so I just disabled it for now. I don’t know what an appropriate replacement would be and I mostly just correct typos so could someone skilled correct this issue and also the footnote link that is now #9 (formerly 10 before I removed the porn link) for the Iron Maiden song reference is also invalid now. At least that one still goes to their website. I thought it was better to do the minimum than mess up the article. Ebdonaldson (talk) 19:43, 3 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I restored the Terry Brighton reference, without the link - we don't need a link when a book is cited. DuncanHill (talk) 19:58, 3 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

A pleade for a section on the reception

This article would benefit from a section on the reception of the poem. Was the public aghast, apathetic or astounded? Did the critics applaud, abhor or acknowledge his oeuvre? I pleade that someone with scholarly knowledge of such matters would expand the article on this subject. Thank you. OJH (talk) 07:45, 11 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]