Talk:The Black Velvet Band

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Ireland Low‑importance

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Okay, but what the f*** does it mean?

What does the phrase 'black velvet band' actually mean? Why that phrase as opposed to pink spotted bunkadoo or the yellow striped band or the standing on one leg, facing north and urinating against an electrical socket band? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.157.186.91 (talk • contribs)

Simple. It's the black velvet band worn by the girl in the song. Heck, it's in the chorus, even. As to why that phrase, you'd probably have to ask whoever wrote the song... Brittany Ka 22:17, 16 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There's so much politics in Irish music that my first thought was that it had to refer to something specific. But I think the connections of black to anarchism or fascism would be anachronistic. Mourning is the other common association with wearing black, but it's not at all clear how that could relate to this song. --dsws 01:58, 15 April 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The Black Velvet Band is a reference to beer, the song isn't a warning against pretty girls, it's a warning against getting drunk in public. 67.183.153.20 16:22, 12 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Holy Jesus! "Her hair it hung over her shoulder, tied up with a Black velvet Band". I suppose that's a pint of the black stuff? LOL! The song is a warning to stay away from women when your'e drinking, meaning prostitutes who will rob people, slip you the goods and blame you when they're caught. Lion King 02:57, 22 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Not unwise to be cautious, but no, it's based around a historical truths, government manipulation of the working class man. In Australia, they couldn't get skilled workers over quickly enough, so they framed artisans in the process. The information isn't very available, but I saw it in this kids production, which is approved as accurate by the Department of education here. http://thecolonialshow.com.au/ They'd pay a girl to steal from a rich man, then place thefind in the pocked of an artisan, then have the police nab him. They were always given the choice between hanging or being sent to Australia. Most picked the hanging. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.240.0.212 (talk) 10:54, 27 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, girls who tied their hair with black ribbon was a signal to men that they were a prostitute. The "richer girls" would wear a gold ankle chain. 650 Norton (1951) (talk) 14:25, 29 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Given that the earliest known versions of this song are from broadsides which place the action in the Ratcliffe Highway in London, there is probably no political significance in the colour of the band the woman in the story uses to tie up her hair Joe Fogey (talk) 09:18, 20 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I've always understood that this song, which I first encountered in childhood, refers to a Traveller clan. The lyrics contain multiple Traveller tropes. In the absence of any stronger argument (or valid citations), I'm putting my money on this one. Laodah 23:49, 4 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

But wasn't she love interest of him? Why would she do that? I'm just not getting her motive... ManishDhabhai123 (talk) 20:24, 27 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Origin

I stumbled into this page when checking refs for a web site - I don't normally contribute about songs. I am aware that this song is generally regarded as an Irish traditional song, indeed I sung it myself in the late 1960s believing this to be true.

What is the evidence for it being an Irish song? Can anyone substantiate the 1952 Belfast source?

What concerns me is that some years ago, without intending to do serious research, it appeared to me that all versions of this song could be traced back to an old drinking friend of my daughter's godfather. This was a farm labourer and cowman in Norfolk called Harry Cox. I know that Peter Kennedy (to whom the first recording in 1952 is attributed) knew Harry Cox and recorded songs from him in the woodshed of his home at Potter Heigham. (The composer Benjamin Britten was another one who sat on the the shed floor noting down Harry's singing). It seems to me as if this may well be an English song originally - although its survival today results from incorporation into the Irish tradition.

Any thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by IainWallace (talk • contribs) 02:05, 26 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I think that you are spot on with your concerns. A little research shows that the Belfast reference is a relatively recent one.

The blase attribution of "Irish song" to nearly everything that has been sung by a popular Irish band, or simply through ignorant assumption is a modern curse. Luke Kelly (who sang this song, notably with The Dubliners) clearly picked up it up from Ewan MacColl, who had collected it from Harry Cox (as the "Belfast variant") and published it with Peggy Seeger in "The Singing Island - A Collection of English and Scots Folksongs" in the 1950's. Luke Kelly popularised the song, and although he was always careful to introduce and attribute songs correctly, the lazy assumptions kick in and this becomes a purely Irish song.

I don't have time to research this properly right now, but the earliest versions of this song seem to be from 19th Century broadsheets which place it in Barking. The folk process, or maybe just local broadside publishers (this has been known with many songs), moved the action to other places including, it seems, Trallee. Why Harry Cox was singing a version with Belfast in it is a mystery. Ecadre (talk) 23:34, 29 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Black Velvet Band (musical group)

there used to be an article about the actual band of this name. what happened to it? i believe they were irish and had various incarnations. in fact, it was full article detailing all their various memberships. would appreciate a disambig page, or even a mention. thanks. Oceanracebluegirl (talk) 23:51, 9 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Theme of TV Drama

The Black Velvet Band was used as a theme to a TV drama about the SAS in Ireland. Does anyone know the name? 87.112.127.227 (talk) 08:48, 22 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"rebel song" LOL

It's not a rebel song, it's a warning about feme fatales. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.22.46.1 (talk) 11:27, 18 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: Honors English 250HV10

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 August 2022 and 28 October 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Pharmacy03 (article contribs). Peer reviewers: Fursheep98, Slaughter3.

— Assignment last updated by Fursheep98 (talk) 14:59, 29 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]