Talk:The Big Goodbye

Untitled

The final paragraph of plot seems incorrect. After the first 2 thugs vanish, data snatches and disables the 3rd thugs gun, and then, with Captain Picard's permission, knocks him out.

Right you are. I've fixed it. William Lovas 06:26, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Should someone mention the fact that Captain Picard says "Step on it" instead of "Engage" at the end of the episode? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.83.114.112 (talk) 18:07, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Should it be mentioned at several elements of the holodeck "novel" are shared with the story The Maltese Falcon? Nutster (talk) 05:05, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:The Big Goodbye/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Viriditas (talk · contribs) 10:32, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

Infobox

Resolved

• Repeating red links to David Selburg in infobox (caption and param.) Remove the latter in the param.

• Removed the latter - I hadn't noticed that when someone added a new image that they'd linked the actor in the caption. Miyagawa (talk) 09:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

• Sorry, but now I'm thinking we should just remove the name and link from the caption and keep the link the cast list for consistency. Viriditas (talk) 09:33, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

• No problem, I've removed it from the caption and added the link back into the list. Miyagawa (talk) 11:16, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

Lead

Resolved

• science fiction television
  • Add link to science fiction television. Viriditas (talk) 11:14, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
    • Done. Miyagawa (talk) 18:38, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

• The episode was the second of the series to be written by Tracy Tormé. Rob Bowman was originally lined up to direct "The Big Goodbye"
  • No need for "to be". Tormé's bio says "he contributed five original stories (two in collaboration with other staff writers) and one teleplay adaptation", so you need to clarify what you mean by second of the "series". Viriditas (talk) 01:00, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
    • I've changed it to the second writing credit of the series - his first was "Haven". The second Dixon Hill episode "Manhunt" would end up being his last. Miyagawa (talk) 09:14, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
• a computer malfunction traps Captain Jean-Luc Picard (Patrick Stewart), Lt. Cmdr. Data (Brent Spiner), and Dr. Beverly Crusher (Gates McFadden) in a 1940s gangster holodeck program
  • Wouldn't this be more accurately worded as a "1940s-era" or "1940s-style" gangster holodeck program? Viriditas (talk) 01:04, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
    • I've changed it to "1940s-style". Miyagawa (talk) 09:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
• The episode was the first to feature the holodeck in a significant manner, and the director and writer both pushed for those sequences to be in black and white.
  • Personally, I do not think it is important to note the "black and white" aspect in the lead, unless of course, you have more to add to this in the body. Viriditas (talk) 00:44, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
    • I've removed it from the lead. Miyagawa (talk) 09:10, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
• The lead is a pretty rough read. Try reading it to yourself and see if you can fix it up a bit. Viriditas (talk) 01:06, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
  • I've gone through and smoothed it out a little. Hopefully its better now. There were some annoyingly short sentences in there, plus a run on sentence and also some word repetition. I think I got them all. Miyagawa (talk) 09:09, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

• Copyedit complete. Feel free to make some changes here. I realize the four paragraph format is odd, but the three paragraphs with one large one is even worse. I added four for readability, but feel free to change it around. Viriditas (talk) 08:04, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Plot

Resolved

• Captain Jean-Luc Picard (Patrick Stewart) is practising the precise greeting to the aliens, but is tired of practising and opts to spend time in the holodeck in a Dixon Hill story.
  • You could clean this up a bit. There are many ways to do it, but here's one suggestion: "After practising the precise greeting required for the negotiations by Jaradan protocol, Captain Jean-Luc Picard (Patrick Stewart) decides to relax with a Dixon Hill story in the holodeck." Viriditas (talk) 00:50, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
    • I've swapped it out with your suggestion as I couldn't think of any better phrasing. Miyagawa (talk) 09:08, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Production

Resolved

• There was also an attempted by production staff to create the detective office with the same layout as seen in that film
  • Try this instead: "The production staff attempted to create the same layout of the detective office from the film." Or try something similar. Viriditas (talk) 00:56, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
    • Done. Miyagawa (talk) 09:13, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
• Note, when you mention the name of a film, it helps the reader to use the format Name of Film (Year). This is optional of course, but I recommend it. Viriditas (talk) 01:04, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
  • I'd done something similar when I copyedited the third paragraph of the lead, but I've just gone back and changed it to that style in both the lead and the production section. Miyagawa (talk) 09:13, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
• Scanlan and Tormé both agreed that the holodeck sequences should be filmed in black and white, but Rick Berman and Bob Justman disagreed with the idea. This idea was later used on screen in Star Trek: Voyager with the Captain Proton holodeck program from the episode "Night" onwards.
  • Yes, it was, but that's bordering on OR because it appears that an editor drew that conclusion, not the sources themselves about this episode. Viriditas (talk) 11:14, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
    • Fair point. Thinking about it in hindsight, it actually wasn't this idea. There's no source to say that the Captain Proton writers read some notes from the Big Goodbye and went in that direction. As such I've removed the line and cite. It was probably a sheer coincidence. Miyagawa (talk) 18:38, 26 July 2013 (UTC)
      • As long as it is removed from the body in its current form, I think it is safe to say we can add back in a short note saying that Captain Proton was in black and white. The reason I say this, is because both holodeck episodes are significant. Viriditas (talk) 00:29, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
        • I've added it back as a note and edited it so that it doesn't sound like it specifically originated from this idea. Miyagawa (talk) 09:11, 27 July 2013 (UTC)
          • Nice work! Viriditas (talk) 00:57, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
• Copyedits still needed. Viriditas (talk) 01:07, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
  • Done. Viriditas (talk) 10:52, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Reception

Resolved

• The episode was first aired on January 11, 1988.
  • "The episode was first aired on January 11, 1988." Viriditas (talk) 01:11, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
    • Done. Miyagawa (talk) 09:14, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
• A review published in the TV Guide at the time criticised the episode for being too similar to The Original Series episode "A Piece of the Action", which featured a planet based on 1930s gangland Chicago.
  • "After its initial release, a review in TV Guide criticised the episode for its similarity to The Original Series episode "A Piece of the Action"..." Viriditas (talk) 01:11, 28 July 2013 (UTC)
    • Changed as suggested. Miyagawa (talk) 09:14, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

• It was also nominated for two Emmy Awards, for Outstanding Cinematography for a Series and Outstanding Costumes for a Series, with Edward R. Brown winning the latter for his work on this episode.
  • At first I thought this was vandalism, but when I look closer, it looks like it could be either an error in the source or by the editor who added this. Regardless, Edward R. Brown did not win an Emmy in costume design, William Ware Theiss did.[1] On the other hand, Brown was nominated for Outstanding Cinematography For A Series.[2] I have fixed the problem. Viriditas (talk) 12:24, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

Criteria

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

1. Is it reasonably well written?

   A. Prose quality:

   Copyedits still needed

   Lead OK

   Plot OK

   Production OK

   Reception OK

   Emmy error fixed.

   B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:

   Repeating red links to David Selburg in infobox (caption and param.)

   Fixed. Miyagawa (talk) 09:15, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

   OK. Viriditas (talk) 00:45, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?

   A. Has an appropriate reference section:

   B. Citation to reliable sources where necessary:

   C. No original research:

   Production section source issue: Basson (1999)

   Fixed by nom. Viriditas (talk) 00:55, 27 July 2013 (UTC)

3. Is it broad in its coverage?

   A. Major aspects:

   B. Focused:

4. Is it neutral?

   Fair representation without bias:

5. Is it stable?

   No edit wars, etc:

6. Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?

   A. Images are tagged with their copyright status, and valid fair use rationales are provided for non-free content:

   Looks OK.

   B. Images are provided if possible and are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions:

   Note, there are other free images from both Maltese Falcon fllms that can be used besides a title card.[3] But if the title card is the best one for the article, then so be it.

   I chose that particular Maltese Falcon image as I thought it was the only one that would be instantly recognisable of the film. Miyagawa (talk) 18:38, 26 July 2013 (UTC)

   Yeah, good choice. Plus, the other images are terrible. Had to ask, though. Viriditas (talk) 03:07, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

7. Overall:

   Pass or Fail:

   Mostly prose issues.

   I just wanted to say a massive thank you for all the reviews you've done on these episode articles recently. This is in fact the final episode of the first season of TNG up for GAN - all the others are already Good Articles (although before I look to do a good topic nomination, I want to roll the improvements from the later nominations back into the earlier ones and expand on a few points - I only found the ratings about half way through for example). Miyagawa (talk) 09:18, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

   No worries. I'll have this finished up later tonight. You could help speed things along by giving it a final copyedit. Viriditas (talk) 04:44, 30 July 2013 (UTC)

   Copyedits complete. Emmy error fixed. Viriditas (talk) 12:24, 30 July 2013 (UTC)