Talk:The Back-up Plan (Glee)

Article title

Note that there's a bit of a disagreement about "Back-up Plan" and its title from "official" sources, so please leave the title alone until there's consensus at Fox. Many thanks.

At the moment, the various Fox press releases—for the actual episode and for the episodic photo pages, both referenced in the article—the title given is "Back-Up Plan". Wikipedia Manual of Style says that should be rendered "Back-up Plan" without capitalizing the "u", if I understand the rules correctly. These are the most official sources, which is why I've gone with them over the others.

The EP being released adds a "The" at the beginning and omits the hyphen: "The Back Up Plan". The YouTube preview videos put out by Fox include "The" at the beginning in their text video descriptions, but not within the videos themselves: "The Back-Up Plan". It may turn out that one or the other of these is the final version, but at the moment they disagree with each other and the press releases.

Note that before any renaming is done, there is a pre-existing 2010 romantic comedy film with the title "The Back-up Plan", and it also uses a redirect from "Backup Plan". If we ultimately add a "The", we certainly should use "The Back-up Plan (Glee)" to disambiguate between this article and the movie. BlueMoonset (talk) 04:35, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Both Fox's official website and iTunes named the episode "The Back-Up Plan". Also the EP released with the songs from the episode is named with "The". Artmanha (talk) 23:56, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Because of the definitive shift, I've moved the article to the "The Back-Up Plan (Glee)" name. Thank you. Artmanha (talk) 20:19, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

• Artmanha, the EP is not definitive, and I'm looking at fox.com/glee right now and the only episode that appears on that page is "The Untitled Rachel Berry Project". Hulu gives "Back-Up Plan" (they're part-owned by Fox), and by Wikipedia manual of style, the "up" needs to be lowercase no matter what, which I why I had it that way.

You would think that after last time, you would have realized that it's always best to discuss these before editing or moving them. This time, you've moved the article while it was on the main page as part of "Did You Know". You also violated the Manual of Style by having "Up" capitalized. Under the circumstances, I think I need to insist on a pointer to where this "definitive" information is, because the Fox page doesn't have it and the pages I see at FoxFlash still use "Back-Up Plan" exclusively. I am also going to ask you, please, to discuss this before moving or otherwise changing names further. I'm not unreasonable, but I am evidence-based, and weighing the evidence is something that should be done among the interested parties to come to a consensus, rather than unilaterally. (If you'll look back, I was the one who changed "Love Love Love" to "Love, Love, Love" when the evidence became clear.) BlueMoonset (talk) 22:42, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

If you checked out the date when I posted the Fox's website comment, you would see it was a few days after the episode was aired. I'm reverting you and please, do not revert it again. I'm open to discussion before any changes. Please notice I've done that here. Artmanha (talk) 23:50, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

As per our MOS (which takes precedence over external naming formats, MOS:CT: "In hyphenated terms, capitalize each part according to the applicable rule". In this case that would make the "up" in lower case. (Artmanha, please also be aware of WP:BRD: if one of your bold edits is reverted, you should discuss and come to an agreement before you revert, not just edit war to your own preference). As our MOS has precence here in terms of capitalisation, I propose we move this page tomorrow to "The Back-up Plan (Glee)" unless there are any disagreements based on policy or guideline. - SchroCat (talk) 16:37, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

As there was no further comment to my entry above, I have moved the page in accordance with the MOS. If there are any further changes, perhaps consensus could be reached before any further moves take place? - SchroCat (talk) 06:58, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

SchroCat, I have nothing against our recent change, but as I've been searching on other TV series' Wikipedia pages, whenever that same case happens, they would leave the hyphenated terms with both parts in upper case, agreeing with the episode's actual name—in this case, "The Back-Up Plan (Glee)". Shouldn't we do it as they do, because the way I see it, when it comes to names, those rules aren't applicable. And as it is a page about an episode called "The Back-Up Plan" and not a page about the definition of "Back-up Plan", we should leave it with upper case. Artmanha (talk) 17:58, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

No, as I've mentioned above, the MoS takes precedence over the choices of the channels. As per the MoS, the correct term is "Back-up". - SchroCat (talk) 18:15, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

As I stated before, I'm okay with that, but what about the other TV series' episodes I mentioned before, are they 'wrong'? What does this MoS affect on them? Because, althogh I'm okay with that I don't see the point. Thanks. Artmanha (talk) 21:59, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

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