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Title confirmed?

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What's the source for this title? If it's nothing official, I'm not sure whether this page is warranted at this time. As far as I know, we don't really have any way of distinguishing information about the first and second episodes of the two-part story, so for some time this is just going to be a duplicate of Rise of the Cybermen. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 20:19, 20 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

for the source look at the deep realms disscusion page. i have a new page because we have one for doomsday/army of ghosts sepeatley and they are almost identical so i thought it logical.--Benbo 21:55, 20 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Content from Rise of the Cybermen?

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Is there any value in copying some of the notes from Rise of the Cybermen#Notes to this article? We don't really know which episode of the story they apply to. Should we just keep it all at Rise of the Cybermen until the episode airs, and then move whatever hasn't been covered to The Age of Steel, or should we go ahead and copy it here (as we seem to be doing with Army of Ghosts and Doomsday)? Should we go for conciseness or thoroughness? —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 21:34, 5 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Note #4

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"Jackie Tyler stars in this episode as herself in the parallel world and appears briefly at the end when The TARDIS lands in her living room in mordern day London. This is the first time in the series that has ever happened." - This is the first time that what has ever happened? That two different Jackies have been in the same episode? --Jawr256 18:43, 20 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I think he means the Tylers living room.

I took it to mean the first time an "alternative time" and "real time" version of the same character have appeared in the same episode. (203.26.177.2 03:23, 22 May 2006 (UTC))[reply]
It's only the second time the series has ever featured a parallel universe! (And surely the first time "alternate" and "real" versions of the same character appear in the same episode was the previous week with Mickey and Ricky?) Daibhid C 10:14, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • wouldn't the events of fathers day have created a very trivial set of alternate realities? Pete dies alone, a few hours earlier, vs a few hours later, in which case we literally saw several "alternate" Jackies in the same episode--71.249.31.68 13:05, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not wanting to sound a continuity spod, but The Brigadier and Liz Shaw appeared as "real" and "alt" versions of themselves in Inforno, didn't they? Terrypin 08:21, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Plot

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The current plot needs to be converted from past to present tense. However, I think a whole new plot would be more appropriate as this one is, frankly, not very good --Jawr256 19:17, 20 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Don't worry, Khaosworks will redo all that hard work soon, so I wouldn't bother. In fact, it will perish under maximum deletion.--Keycard (talk) 19:19, 20 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Yes some scenes ("Where's Gareth...") really ought to be added/expanded on. GracieLizzie 22:21, 20 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

One thing I want to ask- does everytime a Cyberman kills someone have to be referred to as 'deleting' them? It's kind of childish. I think using it once or twice to establish how the Cybermen refer to the act then using the correct term (kills/killed/killing) would work best --HellCat86 00:03, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]


I've attempted to touch it up a bit, the old one had far less information than the show gave, there was no mention of Mrs Moore's real name, which I thought was quite an important thing (it made her death more poignant. Also, in the Notes section, whoever put the food poisoning remark - I have removed it, as this wasn't the reason Clarke left the series, it was just he happened to have Food Poisoning on the day of the shoot. (Which I found out after deleting it, hence my comment in the History. The_B 12:41, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

..starting from scratch, right here on earth...

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followed by "what the hell are you talking about"..

  • so far over the course of 2 episodes, they've gone out of their way to avoid having the residents call this planet by name..

..who else thinks this planet has a different name? maybe one with an M in it? We already know they show up later in the season, anyone think that explosion that sent the TARDIS into this parallel dimension in the first place might be big enough to knock an entire planet into.. oh, i don't know, our own dimension, millions of years in the past, floating around the solar system for a while? .. --71.249.31.68 11:14, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What?--Keycard (talk) 11:22, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think Mondas would have London, Geneva, Paris, New Germany etc. Besides, all the humans from our Earth are present. It might make some sense (Mondas looks like Earth because it is Earth), but the Cybermen would then be seen to have taken a major step back (losing the teardrops), and Russell T Davis et al have said that the show won't rely on the "past mythology". smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 11:44, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Of course if this isn't where they came from in the first place, then the teardrops are a nice coincidence--71.249.31.68 12:07, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
No, no, no, this is how it really happened. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 12:17, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Can't see the link without registering... and it's not possible to register. Any chance of a summary of what the link is talking about? (I'm guessing from context that it's gonna be somewhat tongue-in-cheek.) --DudeGalea 15:53, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
It's a theory that's been mooted on rec.arts.drwho, but my thinking is that (as far as I could tell, my neice was talking during that bit) the episode glosses over the whole "Tenth Planet" thing, which wouldn't be the case if it was going to be relevent later. And yeah, for an independently designed race of Cybermen the teardrops are a bit of a coincidence. But then, so is the entire design. Maybe, as Charles Fort would say, you get Cybermen when it's Cyberman time...Daibhid C 20:42, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks. Yeah, it is all a "bit of a coincidence", but then again, so is a lot of stuff in para-Earth. The very existence of parallel Tylers, Mickey etc. are unlikely. What are the chances that the same sperm met the same egg during their conceptions? And that their parents' lives were similar enough to normal-Earth in order to have met in the first place? With these parallel-world stories (not just in Who) I like to think that there is some 'dramatic resonance' between the worlds causing these similarities. --DudeGalea 21:05, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

When the Doctor is looking at the computer In Rise Of The Cybermen You could here Lumic say "The Human brain is the most valuble thing on this Earth." They only mentioned Earth twice over the whole two parter

head lamps?

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tribute to the origional?--71.249.31.68 13:21, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Lumic

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Why is Lumic so afraid of being "upgraded"? PMA 18:03, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Same reason as everyone else. He was more afraid of dying, hence the whole plan, but he didn't wanted his own upgrade until absolutely necessary. And the fact "his" Cybermen were prepared to argue with him about it probably unnerved him a bit, as well. Daibhid C 20:26, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Mrs. Moore's name?

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Has anybody worked out which book Mrs. Moore would have got her name from -- and if there's a thematic link to the events here? The only Mrs. Moore in literary fiction I know of would be in A Passage to India... -- Smatthewman 19:51, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's assuming that we can rely on fiction in the para-Earth being the same as normal-Earth. --DudeGalea 20:02, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well, assuming it is, there's a Mrs Moore in a book by Alex Shearer (the exact name evades me).

Developments in the parallel universe

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As a parallel world is shown, in which Rose does not exist, it is to be presumed that the Dalek invasion that is the equivalent of S1 episode Bad Wolf proceeds - unless there are knock on effects of the survival of the S1 episode Dalek, and the non-encounter with Jack Harkness - though this is probably better left to the fanfic writers.

One way of setting up Mickey's return - his equivalent in the parallel dimension is dead, and there is a "Mickey shaped gap" in the original diversion.

There is some original research discussion to be held on the laws of physics and survival for characters swapping between parallel dimensions. (Direct swap - the Star Trek episode Mirror, Mirror; encounters - in this Dr who episode; equivalent but not identical characters who can meet and work together - the Eternal Champion in Michael Moorcock's fiction.)

How soon would a "requests for original research" page have more entries on it than the articles in Wikipedia - and how many would be trivial or readily found by "five minutes searching"?

Is there likely to be more "falling through inter-dimensional holes" (including by those JH associated with) now there is only one Time Lord to manage them?

Jackiespeel 21:24, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As far as your last question goes apparently not. Counterintuitively (at least to me) the absence of the Time Lords has apparently strengthened the bounderies between universes, rather than weakened them. Daibhid C 10:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly the difference between Captain Jack (and associates)'s equipment and the Tardis (and equivalents) is parallel to that between b/w and colour TVs - in both cases the former is not capable of "seeing" the full range of possibilities.

The number of holes may remain roughly constant (assuming they are part of the structure of the multiverse - bubbles and tears which appear and disappear) - and, most people will not be able to make use of them (unless able to access appropriate portals. multidimensional travelling machines etc).

I was just putting some ideas in the air.

(And can someone correct the link and error above the link "the origional" leads to a text which seems to be something different and which has some obscure formatting.)

Jackiespeel 21:54, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sound effect

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There's a stock explosiony sound effect used when the Cyber-controller crashlands. ANyone know what it is? Morwen - Talk 21:46, 21 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Other Lumic Factories

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Something that's really been bugging me. Did Mickey suggest Paris, or was he told Paris? Because the way I remember it, I thought Mickey just asked where there were other Lumic factories, and when Jake mentions Paris, that's when he asks if they can go there next. Most edits lately have been saying as if Mickey sugested it first. Can anyone clarify if I'm mistaken? The_B 23:08, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The dialogue goes like this:
Mickey: Of all the cyber-factories out there, d'ya think there'd be one in Paris?
Jake: (nods) Yeah.
Mickey: Then let's go liberate Paris.
Jake: What, you and me? In a van?
Mickey: Nothin' wrong with a van. I once saved the universe with a big yellow truck.
--khaosworks (talk • contribs) 23:52, 22 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Sounded to me like Mickey just fancied "liberating Paris", and it was convenient that there happened to be a good reason for him to go there. PaulHammond 10:18, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, cheers for that then. The_B 18:19, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Sally cyberman's name??

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First time I heard it, I thought 'she' said Sally Fielding, although it's admittedly difficult to make out even when replayed. Is the Sally Phelan name official or a guess? --86.27.60.124 19:50, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's a guess, so far, but it's based on repeated listening. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 22:37, 23 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I've just watched it again and realized the Doctor repeats the name afterwards 'Sally XXXXX didn't die for nothing...' - and it does sound more like Phelan the second time round. Your point :-)--86.27.60.124 19:40, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It sounded like Phelan to me too. I think it may be a pun on "feeling", which is what destroyed the Cybermen. smurrayinchester(Talk) 20:51, 24 May 2006 (UTC)[reply]

It's "Freeman", according to this: [1]. Appropriate, I guess. -- 18:30, 2 June 2006 (GMT +1)

But the same page mentions here as Sally Phelan later on, so... --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 16:58, 2 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Pink Floyd references

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Someone should add a trivia bullet or two regarding the episode's numerous references to Pink Floyd's 1977 album, Animals. See eeggs.com. -69.117.110.86 11:56, 20 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That's absurd. There is more grasping at straws in the linked source than in the average barn.--SB | T 14:04, 20 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The Doctor Who homage is correct in the song "One Of These Days"(Live version) though. And yes he usually does things like that in his live shows. In the clip I saw (in the Links Section) there was an inflatable pig Andy_Howard (talk) 16:57, 24 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

moon at end

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At least one place (the online Discontinuity Guide) seems to claim that the last shot of the night sky on parallel-Earth shows an Earthlike planet in orbit. The implication being that on this parallel Earth, Mondas never left orbit. However, it looks like the moon to me. Did the idea come from a commentary track or something? (DrZarkov 01:30, 8 October 2006 (UTC))[reply]

I believe the idea arose on the Outpost Gallifrey boards. As far as I know, it is unsupported by any remark from the production team. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 01:48, 8 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Cut Line?

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I've heard it said that a line was cut for being 'too horrific'- something about someone screaming out they were 'Only 11' or some similar age. Does anyone know if this is true, and if it is, would it be worth noting somewhere perhaps? Ayries 21:49, 30 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think that was the bride to be. I'm pretty sure one of the commentaries said originally that Cyberman would be revealed as a little boy but it was felt to be too dark so they went with the only slightly less chilling idea of a bride to be on the eve of her wedding.--HellCat86 17:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Continuity

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"Mr. Crane tries to stop John Lumic by attacking the life support system on his wheelchair. In Genesis of the Daleks (1975), the Fourth Doctor threatens Davros by temporarily switching off the life support system on his chair."

Is there anything to suggest that this is actually a continuity ref and not just a coincidence? Terrypin 15:59, 8 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

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