Talk:Terek Oblast

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Gubernias del Caucaso - Oblast de Tersk - Imperio Ruso.png

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 07:22, 15 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Predecessor ?

Was there a russian administrative unit on this territory before (1860) or was Terek Oblast the first ? --2001:A61:2B09:B901:1419:A0E9:5621:8C08 (talk) 10:13, 10 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Terek and Dagestan oblasts

Moved from User talk:Lokys dar Vienas

Hi @Lokys dar Vienas, could you please explain your reasoning for moving the Terek Oblast and Dagestan oblast articles back to the uppercase and non-italicised versions? MOS:FOREIGNITALIC says that foreign and transliterated terms should be italicised, and MOS:NCCAPS says that article titles should be in sentence case. – Olympian ^loquere 00:26, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Olympian: I changed the titles for consistency with other "Oblasts", see Category:Oblasts_of_the_Russian_Empire, Category:Oblasts of Russia. "Sentense case" and italicising is not applicable because they are proper names. By the way When foreign terms are entered into English vocabulary, they are not italiciized. In any case, for such kinds of generic changes, please seek consensus in WikiProject Russia. Lokys dar Vienas (talk) 03:47, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Changing a title to be consistent with other (potentially erroneous) titles shouldn't be the basis for moving, and you haven't cited any Wikipedia policies to support the move; in any case, I've asked for clarification in MoS. – Olympian ^loquere 04:23, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Lokys dar Vienas I suggest you take a look at this recent RM for the vilayet articles which cited the same policies, requiring that "the article title should only be capitalized if it is consistently capitalized in reliable sources". As I explained in MoS, most of the reliable sources that I've read tend to write "oblast" in lowercase (and italics), based on this, could you please revert the moves per WP:BRD? Thanks, – Olympian ^loquere 06:02, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I browsed Google Books and I wouldn't say that the overwhelming majority uses "oblast". Lokys dar Vienas (talk) 17:22, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Olympian: Would you please discuss the issue at WikiPRoject Russia? If you are right, then all hundred of Oblast articles must be moved. Capitalizing "Oblast" is decades-long practice in Wikipedia and cannot be ignored lightly. I am also requesting WP:3RD. Lokys dar Vienas (talk) 17:05, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WP:NCCAPS says: "Do not capitalize the second or subsequent words in an article title, unless the title is a proper name". Terek Oblast is a proper name, judst as Appalachian Mountains, hence your argument is invalid. Lokys dar Vienas (talk) 17:28, 17 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Terek Oblast is a proper name, judst as Appalachian Mountains, hence your argument is invalid

If that was indeed the case, how would you reconcile that logic with the successful RM for the vilayet articles? Unlike the Appalachian Mountains, the Terek oblast and Van vilayet are transliterated from another language and thus subject to foreign-language-term conventions. – Olympian ^loquere 02:52, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

WP:OTHERSTUFF. There are also Category:Provinces of Turkey capitalized and Category:Provinces of Iran decapped and Category:Counties of Lithuania, capped. What I say, every page move must be consistent per country. Each country ma have iyts own consideration, noyt just random moves of a couple of random articles. Lokys dar Vienas (talk) 03:52, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

P.S. and while doing "wholesale" move discussion I suggest, one has to consider the usage for all Oblasts, not just fr a couple rare examples. And thhis must be done by experts in the area, in this case wikipedians interested in Russia subjects with some expertise in the subject, not a random internet-savvy editor who knows how to (ab)use google searches/tools. So far as I see no one comes from WPRussia, so I DGAF and retiring after trying to attract a broader participation. Lokys dar Vienas (talk) 03:52, 18 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

3O Response: I see good points made for both arguments, but not enough assessment of use in sources to determine the capitalization issue. I recommend opening a requested move to encourage broader input. ––FormalDude (talk) 23:03, 23 February 2023 (UTC) ––FormalDude (talk) 23:03, 23 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]