Talk:Telegraph Road (song)

Source URL unreachable/404

The web presence http://knopfler.net seems to be down as I write this (2009-04-17). I don't know whether just temporarily or forever. Does anyone know more about it?

There's still a reference link pointing to http://www.knopfler.net/telegraph.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.43.213.203 (talk) 23:01, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

NPOV?

I added this section, yet confess to not being entirely happy with it:

"...yet has remained well-regarded over the years by many fans of the band."

I feel that something should be said to justify its inclusion - I don't believe it was a hit (from what I know), yet I know it's still fairly famous as Dire Straits songs go (Mark Knopfler is known to still play it at his gigs). --unsigned comment by User:Andrew Spinner 05:37, June 6 2006 (UTC)

Well, it appeared on two of the three "best of" collections (one more than "radio" songs such as Skateaway and Lady Writer) and fan reviews (including mine) often cite it as their favorite song. Is that "Well-regarded by fans"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.13.71.166 (talk) 05:57, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Great Song.--The opinionist (talk) 22:16, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

Sources

Some sources to revive and expand the article:

https://www.soundandvision.com/content/fang-bian-telegraph-road-dire-straits

https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/music/1240292/Dire-Straits-songs-brothers-in-arms-john-illsley-dire-straits-band-members

("His other choice, Telegraph Road, is also a Straits classic and received major plaudits on its release.")

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-album-reviews/love-over-gold-252877/

https://www.weekendnotes.com/love-over-gold-by-dire-straits-classic-album-review/

https://www.songfacts.com/facts/dire-straits/telegraph-road

Could probably find more. There are far less notable album tracks by other bands that have articles, this one is the most important song MK wrote aside from the big hits. Jules TH 16 (talk) 22:33, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Do you have proof that it's the "most important song apart from the big hits", or is that just your opinion? Weekend Notes and Songfacts are not reliable sources. Not sure if Sound and Vision is a reliable source or not, but it's not a journalist reviewing it, it's a "celebrity" picking his favourite track. Rolling Stone is a review of the whole album, not particularly about this song – WP:NSONG says, "If the only coverage of a song occurs in the context of reviews of the album on which it appears, that material should be contained in the album article and an independent article about the song should not be created.". And the Daily Express source is a primary source, an interview with one of the band members who made this song, and all he says is "I think Telegraph Road was quite a journey"... that's it. The journalist who wrote that piece gives no evidence of the song being a classic or receiving "major plaudits". Richard3120 (talk) 19:27, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

No, it's consensus. Ask any group of musicians or rock fans somewhat familiar with Knopfler's work and they'll come up with this song. It's one of the very few 10+ minute songs you can still hear on public radio. There should be some statistics/charts to underline that. And to the above, Illsley also says it's one of his two favourite DS songs next to "Brothers in Arms". Jules TH 16 (talk) 18:34, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Right, but as you say, you'll need some reliable sources to confirm that consensus – I know this song well and you're probably right that it's one the band's best-regarded album tracks, but my opinion counts for nothing, it needs independent proof. And Illsley saying it's one of his favourite songs doesn't count for independent notability. Richard3120 (talk) 19:20, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

@Richard3120:, what more is required, precisely? some of those articles aren't bad sources (quality-wise). it seems hard to find other sources. another source i found is guitar.com when it describes knopfler (a guitar legend):

"His stabbing fills were a signature of early records, alongside a peerless sense of melody. He can play very fast indeed, but he’s became increasingly well-known for his achingly lyrical bluesy licks as well: think of Brothers In Arms (the track) and Telegraph Road. Oh, and he’s actually left-handed as well! He’s a one-off."

the source meets the quality requirement and states he is known for his "bluesy licks" in telegraph road.

daimler also wrote an article on the song:

Since its release in 1982, the song has always been relevant until today — and will remain so in the future. All the more as the digital highways continue to supersede the Telegraph Roads of this world and through them new transformations are launched. One question remains: Will these data highways themselves ever be the subject of such musical and lyrical masterpieces?

this website (called the local answer, not sure if it meets source quality criteria since it doesn't have a wiki article) also says its a classic, but in a different context:

And today, as he releases ‘Down the Road Wherever’, he once again shows that he has no interest in what the kids are into whatsoever. The album opens with ‘Trapper Man,’ and you could be forgiven for thinking, as the high string note fades in for the intro, that he had re-recorded the Dire Straits classic ‘Telegraph Road’. It sounds exactly the same.

i think with what @Jules TH 16: has provided, there should be enough to create an article. i believe the daimler article is the real exclamation point here 198.53.108.48 (talk) 18:51, 1 August 2021 (UTC)

References

Thanks. I noticed the somewhat clunky English and immediately thought the writer must be German (like me ^^). Lo and behold the same article also exists in German. (And speaking of which, the German Wikipedia has no qualms about having an article for this song, even if it's poorly sourced.)

I'll set about merging the new stuff with the old article (since it was well written and I see no point in throwing all that away) in a few days. Jules TH 16 (talk) 21:47, 3 August 2021 (UTC)

Well, the Guitar and Local Answer sources are very poor as they are just passing mentions that say nothing detailed about the song. All the Local Answer says is that a song from another Knopfler album sounds like "Telegraph Road"'s intro, and in fact, the Guitar source has been misinterpreted, as it does not say Knopfler is known for his bluesy licks in "Telegraph Road", it merely cites the song as an example of his playing. The Daimler piece is at least in-depth, but it does look like an opinion piece by a non-music journalist in a car magazine, so it's still dubious as a source. Richard3120 (talk) 16:13, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

@Jules TH 16: which sources are you claiming aren't bad sources? Rolling Stone and The Weekend Review are reviews of the whole Love over Gold album – WP:NSONG states, "If the only coverage of a song occurs in the context of reviews of the album on which it appears, that material should be contained in the album article and an independent article about the song should not be created." Songfacts is not reliable – it's information supplied by users, anybody can edit it and there's no way of verifying what they wrote is true, so it fails WP:USERG. The fact that you say yourself that "it seems hard to find other sources" is a very good indication that notability for this song is dubious. Richard3120 (talk) 16:18, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Putting this below because you inserted it slap dash in the midst of @198.53.108.48:'s comment, and also misinterpreted their statement as mine. Besides, the notability wrt to the album is a slippery slope; "Telegraph Road" is the longest track on Love Over Gold (it makes up 1/3 of the whole album's length) and the one with the longest endurance if you look at MK's live setlists. Jules TH 16 (talk) 08:30, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Yes, apologies to you and the IP about that, I genuinely thought it was you that had asked the question, so I replied to the wrong person. Not quite sure what point you're making above... that a long song that takes up a large part of an album is notable? Anyway, personally I won't redirect the article if you create it again with the above sources, we'll see what we can make out of them. Richard3120 (talk) 13:10, 6 August 2021 (UTC)

Inconsistent to not have Telegraph Road as a separate reference

Wikipedia is not applying a consistent policy in respect to articles about individual songs.

For example, Tina Turner's song "Private Dancer" has a separate page on Wikipedia, but Wikipedia puts in a redirect to a generic page instead of having a page discussing one of the most important tracks on one of the most important albums that Mark Knopfler and Dire Straits had released.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Dancer_(Tina_Turner_song)

By the way, the website for Mark Knopfler is here: https://www.markknopfler.com/

2406:E001:501D:D001:5CA:EFA0:C084:AFBF (talk) 10:32, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Where is the inconsistency? You are trying to compare an album track with a single that was a top twenty hit in nine different countries... "Private Dancer" is clearly far more notable as a song. You need to provide evidence that the song is as important as you say, otherwise it's just your personal opinion. Richard3120 (talk) 14:15, 5 November 2021 (UTC)

Here is the inconsistency. I had bowed out of the discussion because I could not really keep up with it and didn't have enough strength to rewrite the article. But I've just discovered the existence of this article:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_per_Cent_for_Nothing

So, Yes' shortest track ever, basically a throwaway piece, never played on the radio or released as a single, not played live for decades, not referred to much on its own either... can have such a long (and well-sourced, mind) article, but a bonafide classic like Telegraph Road, the longest track Knopfler ever wrote and one of the mainstays in his musical career, keeps getting redirected. I just find it utterly bizarre. Jules TH 16 (talk) 21:28, 24 April 2022 (UTC)

You guys seem to be laboring under the assumption that a single person makes all the decisions on which subjects receive standalone articles on Wikipedia. That's not the case; Wikipedia is free for everyone to edit. Even when a reasoned community decision is made to keep or redirect an article, a single editor with no admin privileges can undo that keep or redirect. They don't even need to provide a reason for their action unless another editor objects. Thus, WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is a pointless line of discussion. Martin IIIa (talk) 03:32, 1 May 2024 (UTC)