Talk:Teams and drivers of the 2023 NASCAR Cup Series

WP:PROSELINE

@Andrew Davidson and Muboshgu:. I'm not sure how to proceed with continuing to edit this to satisfy this essay. The essay seems to deal with bulleted points telling a story about the same cast of characters or a central character, with examples of Iran–United States relations (where the characters here are aligned with two differing sides) and a story centred around a character named Kujo. Here, we have a series of announcements of over 40 different teams confirming their plans for the 2023 racing season. It seems difficult to me to convert these bulleted blurbs into a cohesive series of paragraphs, and removing any of the information about an individual team (such as to trim a paragraph by WP:WEIGHT) would cause issues with WP:V. I note that other sports season articles such as 2022 NFL season have a similar style of bulleted blurbs for player transactions, but the nature of NASCAR means we get much more of them. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 16:32, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

GhostOfDanGurney I'm not against the bullets personally. The "On x date, Y happened" style is too repetitive though, especially where it's like that line after line in #Interim crew chiefs and #Sponsorships. Sometimes it's a matter of making a sentence "Y happened on X date" instead. Or, finding other ways to convey the info. Are the dates necessary? They seem superfluous. For example, On February 15, 2023, hard rock band Guns N' Roses announced it will sponsor the Legacy Motor Club No. 43 driven by Erik Jones for the 2023 Daytona 500. Cool that GnR sponsored a car, but why do we need to know the announcement was on February 15? – Muboshgu (talk) 17:43, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Muboshgu: That example you give here is something I would not have ever added into the article; had I been more active this year on the NASCAR side I likely would have reverted this addition on the spot, so to me this is preaching to the choir and can be fixed by removing this and other similar material which does not directly confirm either a Team, driver or crew chief.

I would point to 2023 IndyCar Series as an example of both this type of bullet-style writing in an auto racing article that isn't full of that type of WP:PROMO and an example of where I was able to convert something that other editors typical write in bullets (the section for "Background and series news") into WEIGHTed paragraphs. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 20:06, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry to rain on your parade but the article is generally contrary to WP:NOT, being a blow-by-blow compilation of primary detail which is original and not a summary of other secondary sources. The only bit that I would save is the explanation of chartering which was missing from the main article and so baffled me when I read it. Andrew🐉(talk) 18:03, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Andrew Davidson: Links to primary references (generally nascar.com or a team press release) is a mistake which is common amongst the newer/casual editors which frequently edit in this topic area. Most material can be supported by secondary references including AP, NBC, Fox, SI, The Athletic, Sports Business Journal, motorsport-focused sources like Autosport/Motorsport Network, and RACER, and the arms-length source which maintains editorial independence despite having been recently purchased by NASCAR, Jayski's Silly Season Site. ― "Ghost of Dan Gurney" (talk) 20:19, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Press releases are designed to be repeated by the press and this is often done with little added-value per churnalism. And they tend to be forward-looking, announcing a change or plan. That's reasonable for journalism which emphasises novelty and speculation. But, as an encyclopedia, we should have a more backward-looking, historical perspective, presenting how everything actually worked out. Andrew🐉(talk) 21:44, 7 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]