Talk:Taksim meeting

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Taksim meeting/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Kaiser matias (talk · contribs) 05:36, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

I'll review this in the next few days. Kaiser matias (talk) 05:36, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Just a heads up I'm waiting on a couple of the books noted here to come in, so I can check some details. Definitely not forgotten though. Kaiser matias (talk) 00:14, 7 August 2022 (UTC)

• The infobox notes the meeting is named after Taksim Square, but this is not supported in the body of the article, or cited. I'd advise both mentioning this in the lead, and then incorporating it into the body of the article, with a citation.

 Done

• "The meeting was organized on the initiative of Hasan Prishtina and Ismail Qemali..." Best to note who they are and why they would send out an invitation. Something simple as "The meeting was organized on the initiative of Hasan Prishtina and Ismail Qemali, Albanian politicians, ..." would be enough.

 Done

• "Although not to the extent expected by its organizers, the Taksim meeting resulted in the uprising of the same year with armed insurrections..." This reads oddly. A better way would be "The Taksim meeting resulted in an uprising the same year, with armed uprisings in Shkodër, Lezhë, Mirditë, Krujë and other Albanian provinces, which exceeded the organizers expectations.

 Done

• " It achieved its biggest goals was in Kosovo where the rebels were more organized and managed to take over important cities such as Prizren, Peja, Gjakova, Mitrovica and other." Also can be cleaned up: "The biggest uprising was in Kosovo, where the rebels were more organized and managed to take over important cities like Prizren, Peja, Gjakova, Mitrovica and others."

 Done

• "In the Albanian provinces began the implementation of the freedoms and rights guaranteed by the constitution by opening Albanian schools..." Reword: "In the Albanian provinces the implementation of the freedoms and rights guaranteed by the constitution began by opening Albanian schools..."

 Done

• "While the CUP pushed for the adoption of a Turkish-Arabic alphabet which Albanian intellectuals rejected as incompatible with the phonetics of the Albanian language." Better option: "While the CUP pushed for the adoption of a Turkish-Arabic script, Albanian intellectuals rejected this as incompatible with the phonetics of the Albanian language.

 Done

• "The situation would worsen a year later in the 1910 revolt where initially under the command of Cavid Pasha and then Shevket Turgut Pasha under the pretext of suppressing the "reactionaries" and the "çetas" would commit atrocities in the Vilayet of Kosovo and the Vilayet of Shkodra." This is confusing: who is under the command of Cavid and Shevket Turgut? Is it the reactionaries and cetas? Or someone else? Either this will need to be reworded.

 Done

• "Albanians secured some victories but after taking command over and with reinforcements around 35 to 40,000 by the Minister of War himself, Mahmud Shevket Pasha..." New: "The Albanians secured some victories but after Mahmud Shevket Pasha, the Minister of War, took over command and was reinforced with an additional 35–40,000 soldiers..."

 Done

• "A year later another revolt took place on March 1911 in Malësia." Should be "in March 1911."

 Done

• "A year later another revolt took place on March 1911 in Malësia. It was organized by the mostly Catholic fis of Malësors (lit. 'highlanders') which created just as many difficulties for the central government." This can be merged into once sentence: "A year later another revolt took place in March 1911 in Malësia, organized by the mostly Catholic fis of Malësors (lit. 'highlanders')."

 Done

• "Similar uprisings but more limited in number and size, took place in Mirdita, highlands of Tirana, Elbasan, but also in south." New: "Similar uprisings, but more limited in number and size, took place in Mirdita, highlands of Tirana, Elbasan, and in the south."

 Done

• "...these uprisings greatly affected the politics that took place in Constantinople..." That should be "effected", though for better flow: "these uprisings had a great effect on the politics in Constantinople..."

 Done

• "Both events contributed to the breaking of relations of the Albanians members of the CUP and the party herself, some of whom were founders from the very beginning, such as the case of Ibrahim Temo, and others who had an irreplaceable contribution to the revolution and in the events that would follow, people such: Nexhip Bey Draga, Bedri Bey Pejani, Hasan Bey Prishtina, Essad Pasha Toptani and others." Clean up: "Both events contributed to the breaking of relations between the Albanians members of the CUP and the party itself, including founding members like Ibrahim Temo, and other prominent figures like Nexhip Bey Draga, Bedri Bey Pejani, Hasan Bey Prishtina, Essad Pasha Toptani."

 Done

• "Furthermore, due to the failure of the CUP to implement reforms and end the repressive measures against Albanians, from the middle to the end of 1911 ..." Fix: "...from the middle of 1911 to the end of the year..."

 Done

• "The departure of Albanian deputies from the ranks of the CUP continue from day to day..." Fix: "The departure of Albanian deputies from the CUP continued..."

 Done

• "While the opposition itself..." Just write "The opposition..."

 Done

• "On 11 January 1912, the nationalist deputy of Liberal Entente, Hasan Bey would declare in parliament..." Use past tense: "Hasan Bey declared in parliament..." This would also be a good place to start a new paragraph.

 Done

• For Hasan Bey's quotes: the use of the "—" is not necessary, and should be removed. I also would advise not italicizing it, as that is not necessary. This is true throughout the article for quotes.

 Done

• "After the session closure..." Fix: "After the session closed..."

 Done

• There are differing spellings of Hasan Prishtina/Pristhina. Ensure to use one version throughout (it seems to be "Prishtina").

 Done

• "It was agreed that the meeting is held in the form of a Kuvend..." Fix: "It was agreed that the meeting would be held in the form of a Kuvend..."

 Done

• "Syrja Bey, a well known Austrophile, did not hesitate to express different views from Qemali himself for quite some time, so much so that a dualism was created between them." Can be fixed: Syrja Bey, a well-known Austrophile, did not hesitate to express differing views from Qemali, so much that opposing factions developed (I believe this is what's meant here; "a dualism" doesn't make sense at least).

 Done

• " Although not a MP, Syrja Bey supported the full independence of Albania ..." No need to link MP or independence here.

 Done

• "...either in newspaper articles of the empire or through interviews published in Austrian contemporary press." You can drop "contemporary" (it's implied): "...through interviews published in the Austrian press."

 Done

• "This view was contrary to what the others had opted of obtaining or at least hoped to do so..." There's no citation to the rest of this sentence.

 Done

• "...take the Besa (English: 'take oath' or 'word of honor')..." No need to have "English" there; it's implied.

 Done

• "Figures like Hasan Bey and Syrja Bey thought that the independence was inevitable in the near future." No citation here.

Resolved

Removed, the issue has been clarified below

• "There were also those who were ready to join the revolt without much persuasive effort, such as Bajram Curri, one of the leaders of the Krasniqi at the time." Also needs a citation.

 Done

• "While to provide support from Great Powers and especially finding the weapons and money that would be needed for the revolt Ismail Qemali took over promising that 15,000 Mauser rifles and about 10,000 gold Napoléons would be sent through Montenegro." Fix: "Ismail Qemali helped acquire weapons and money from the Great Powers for the revolt and promised 15,000 Mauser rifles and about 10,000 gold Napoléons would be sent through Montenegro (so long as this is accurate; did the Great Powers supply this?)."

• "Essad Pasha on the other hand guaranteed that he would deal with the preparations for the uprising in central Albania and in Mirditë." You can delete "on the other hand"; it's redundant wording.

 Done

• "On 18 January 1912, the Chamber of Deputies was dissolved by sultan Mehmet V at the instigation of the CUP itself..." The "itself" can be removed (redundant).

 Done

• "So, for some conspirators, things would get complicated as they would have to win a new mandate while a revolt could jeopardize their ground support." Fix: "This complicated things for some conspirators, as they would have to win a new mandate while a revolt could jeopardize their ground support."

 Done

• "...except for Qemali who had traveled to Europe but was following the events closely through his agents on the field." Should be "agents in the field."

 Done

• "...except for Qemali who had traveled to Europe but was following the events closely through his agents on the field. Two of them were Luigj Gurakuqi, a young Catholic activist from Shkodër and Fazil Pasha Toptani, cousin of Essad Pasha, who were both his close associates for a long time." Fix: "...except for Qemali who had traveled to Europe but was following the events closely through his agents in the field, including Luigj Gurakuqi, a young Catholic activist from Shkodër and Fazil Pasha Toptani, cousin of Essad Pasha, who had both long been Qemali's close associates."

 Done

• "While in the months of March–April..." Write it as "While in the months of March and April..."

 Done

• Aftermath section: this needs to be broken up into smaller paragraphs, as the two there are far too large to properly make sense of. I also want to allow you to adjust that before I go through it, as the organization will impact the review.

 Done

• References: it's strongly advised to sort them alphabetically by author name. Right now there seems to be no system in place

 Done

• The Skendi text has a 2015 date, alongside the 1967 one. I checked the copy with this ISBN, and confirmed it's 1967. From what I can see the 2015 date comes from Google Books, but I don't know their rationale for it, and would advise removing it completely as it's not accurate.

Resolved

the issue has been clarified below

• For non-English sources, it is advisable to include an English translation of titles; use the "trans-title" parameter.

 Done

• Check duplicate links, and avoid some common links (guerilla, casualty, Balkans, exiled, etc).

 Done

Overall it's a comprehensive article. I have a passing knowledge of this era in Albanian history, so am somewhat familiar with the subject here, and it doesn't seem to be missing anything, and covers it in good detail. The comments so far are mostly about cleaning up the wording, which is still well-done. And as noted I'm going to return once you break down the aftermath section to review that, and give the article a final read to ensure it's good. Kaiser matias (talk) 01:22, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

@Kaiser matias Hello and thank you for the review. You raised points that really improve the article and I thank you for that. Unfortunately, I am unable at the moment to deal with the suggested changes, since I am on vacation for the whole month. But I hope that @Ktrimi991 or someone else who is currently active in articles dealing with Albania can do it since the changes do not require great effort, new resources or major changes in the structure of the article. @Ktrimi991 I hope you find time to help us here... thanks in advance! -- Bes-ARTTalk 12:32, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

No worries, I can do that. If the reviewer does not have anything against, I will address the issues later today and tomorrow. Ktrimi991 (talk) 14:25, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

I can help with some of the issues raised by the reviewer. @Kaiser matias: The Skendi book is a Princeton publication, which as many other Princeton works has been republished. The edition used in the article was re-published in 2015 (ebook)/ 2016 (hardcover) [1]. The bibliography list should use the most recent edition.--Maleschreiber (talk) 15:55, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

I appreciate everyone's help here, and want to assure you all that there's no rush to get things done. I know people can be busy, and while I know the hold notification here says something like 7 days, I'm not going to hold to that; I only use it to confirm the initial review is done. Just let me know once things are good to go, and I will take another look. And thanks for the note on the Skendi book; I didn't realize it was republished, and am good with it as is then. Kaiser matias (talk) 23:59, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Comment Because some time has passed since the writing of this article, I somehow lost track of the citations of some sentences in the mentioned sources. The solution is that since they do not affect the structure of the article, two of the points that I cannot find at the moment should be removed. However, in the future I may restore it as I am sure they are cited somewhere. This article is part of a series of articles that I am rewriting or creating from scratch. So I might add sources and add other content again. Although I think that more important are the creation and improvement of other articles that are related to the events of 1911-1913 in the Balkans. Regarding this point: "While to provide support from Great Powers and especially finding the weapons and money that would be needed for the revolt Ismail Qemali took over promising that 15,000 Mauser rifles and about 10,000 gold Napoléons would be sent through Montenegro." Fix: "Ismail Qemali helped acquire weapons and money from the Great Powers for the revolt and promised 15,000 Mauser rifles and about 10,000 gold Napoléons would be sent through Montenegro (so long as this is accurate; did the Great Powers supply this?)." - In the sources related to the event, even by top-notch authors like Gawrych, 15,000 rifles are mentioned simply as a fact, a task assumed by Qemali to secure weapons but which due to later developments was not achieved, and Prishtina itself was forced to sell some of its property to secure weapons. In my opinion, it is better not to include this fact in the article because it is not related to the Meeting/Assembly rather add it in the article about the revolt of 1912 and the Junik Assembly (which may be created in the future) which are much more connected. --Bes-ARTTalk 17:03, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the clarification. If the sources go with that then best to use it.

I added a few sentences below briefly explaining what happened, although I think the event should be told in more detail in another article.

 Done

• Kaiser matias, I think the article is ready for the next phase of the review. The issues you raised seem to have been solved. Ktrimi991 (talk) 14:45, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Good work all. It does look a lot better. I have a few more comments below before I'll pass it though.

Further notes:

• "That same month, the government would accept most of the demands made by Albanian leaders." Needs a citation.

 Done

• "On 8 October 1912, Montenegro suddenly declared war on the Ottoman Empire, not delaying to attack Albania, aiming the capture of Shkodra, Gjakova, Peja with Prizren as its final target." This can be made clearer: "On 8 October 1912, Montenegro suddenly declared war on the Ottoman Empire, and invaded Albania, aiming to capture Shkodra, Gjakova, Peja with Prizren."

 Done

• " However, Albania's borders would be officially recognized only a year later by the Conference of the Ambassadors and would be far from Albanian claims." I'd reword to something like: "However, Albania's borders would be officially recognized only a year later by the Conference of the Ambassadors, and not include all the territory Albania claimed."

 Done

• The italics for quotes, and use of emdashes (—) is still being used. I'd advise against that completely, it's not necessary. Kaiser matias (talk) 17:24, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

I removed from the quotes the italics and emdashes. Ktrimi991 (talk) 18:27, 21 August 2022 (UTC)