Talk:Taga za Yug

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November 2007

Laveol, stop deleting my edits Jtozija 17:54, 23 May 2007 (UTC)Jtozija[reply]

The struga festival is completely irrelevant and already covered in Struga. The wine is also very irrelevant, this is the article for the poem, make another one for the wine itself. Also Miladinov, as he declared himself, was Bulgarian. Mr. Neutron 18:12, 23 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see how the explanation what the song is about is irrlevant about the song itself. I don't see how an explanation of the wine called the same way as the song is irrrelevantas well. And, how could he possibly be a bulgarian when he is longing for his homeland, Macedonia. Citation:

"Ne, ja ne mozham ovde da sedam, ne, ja ne mozham mrazoj da gledam! Dajte mi krilja ja da si metnam i v nashi str'ni da si preletnam; na nashi mesta ja da si idam, da vidam Ohrid, Struga da vidam."

Ohrid and Struga have never been Bulgarian, nor have the Miladov brothers. If at some time they have declared themselves Bulgarians, that was because of the repression of the macedonian people at that time. If the Republic of Macedonia did not exist at that time, it does not mean that there was no macedonian population either. Stop stealing other peoples history. If you do not agree with me, please provide the wider audience with your own view of the meaning of the song.

The population of Ohrid and Struga, and most of the region of present day Republic of Macedonia were considered Bulgarian prior to the beginning of the 20th century. See Demographic history of Macedonia. There was no mention of "Macedonian" ethnicity prior to this period. The Miladinovi brothers have always declared themselves in their correspondence as Bulgarians and the population of their native lands as Bulgarian. Mr. Neutron 19:11, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Also do not revert the name of the poem. Miladinov did not write "Т'га за jуг", he wrote "Тъга за юг", exactly as it will be written in modern standard Bulgarian language. Mr. Neutron 19:29, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Macedonia was considered as Bulgaria by whom??? The rest of the world or by Bulgaria??? Maybe i consider african tribes to be macedonian, but who gives a damn about my opinion when that's not reality. You really need to start to see the world from the other angle. For your own good. Otherwise you might end up one day claiming Dalaj Lama (or however that is spelled) is bulgarian as well.Jtozija 20:07, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

There is plenty of evidence from western and estern travellers. Mr. Neutron 20:11, 24 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

As far as I know you're the once claiming that everybody from Alexander the Great through to Cleopatra????? were Macedonian. That's the first time I hear about African tribes, but if you say so :) --Laveol 05:49, 25 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Mr. Neutron (actually ForeignerFromTheEast), sure "Struga Festival" is "irrelevant" except for the fact that it hosted several NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS from all around the globe. big deal. It doesnt matter that the festival was intentionaly established in Struga to honor the Miladinovci Brothers and that Konstantin's "Tga za Jug" was translated by the Festival in numerous languages and spreaded around the world. Big deal. Everything is irrelevant on this planet except the opinion of 2 Bulgarian editors. And a new thing: Now Laveol contests the use of Macedonia EVEN AS A REGIONAL TERM. My statement that Konstantin was "Macedonian-born" was reverted by the editor in question. absurd Dzole 07:11, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I think you've misunderstood me - I meant you should write it like this. Macedonian-born might mean everything even properly disambiguated.--Laveol ^T 15:37, 5 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Explaining my changes

Firstly, I moved the Macedonian variant of the name right after the Bulgarian one, because that's the way we do it in such articles.

Secondly, I replaced 'text in Bulgarian' with 'text in the Struga dialect' because the poem is written in the Struga dialect. Naturally. If you care that much (I'm addressing the Bulgarian editors), you can include an explanation that the Struga dialect was then part of the Bulgarian literary language or whatever, but you can't claim that the poem is written in Bulgarian (simply because it isn't). Also, I added the full text with the Macedonian alphabet. --iNkubusse^? 15:18, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Oks, your changes are appropriate - just a note - the poem was written in Bulgarian. --Laveol ^T 16:10, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What do you mean? I thought the original was written in the Struga dialect. Hm? --iNkubusse^? 19:30, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Well, according to them it was in Bulgarian (using the Bulgarian alphabet;))--Laveol ^T 19:45, 21 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Vandalism

Reverting to Macedonian ethnicity without references is pure vandalism. Jingby (talk) 16:28, 1 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Please stop reverting. 08:07, 23 March 2009 (UTC)

Poster

I think all the explanations added recently under the poster issued during the 1930s are irrelevant to this article about the poem Taga za yug. Because of that I will remove them, except the explanation concerning directly the poem. The poster was released 70 years after the death of Miladinov Brothers and all images and inscriptions besides the text of the poem, are related to events irrelevant to this article. Meanwhile, I have created an article about the slogan Macedonia for the Macedonians and I have uploaded the poster there as well. By the way, this removal will be also in line with the editorial comments made on the edit-summaries by other users. Jingiby (talk) 05:02, 1 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I think the translation of the title should be stated for readers who cannot read in Cyrillic/Slavic since it is an undeniable centrepiece of the poster. After all this is English wikipedia not Bulgarian. Translating the title contributes more to the topic than certain snippets of very specific information such as it being written in "older Bulgarian orthography". Please try to retain a neutral point of view. Anti political shills —Preceding undated comment added 09:55, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Should we add the info, that the poster is also a reminiscent of the Ilinden uprising in Struga, and contains, among other things, the revolutionary banner of the local IMARO cheta, as well as pictures of several prominent Macedonian Bulgarian comitadjis from the region as Hristo Matov, etc. Jingiby (talk) 13:54, 2 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I think that is fine. Anti political shills —Preceding undated comment added 09:15, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

"called 'Western Bulgaria' due to Greek opposition"

I think the "Greek opposition" part should remain as that is what is implied in Konstantin Miladinov's letter (a primary source). The non-primary sources seem to speculate that in Miladinov's perspective at the time, Westerners began to associate the term "Macedonia" with the heavy Hellenization which was occuring in the region, therefore Miladinov wanted to temporarily avoid using the term due to being situated in Vienna. Saying "due to Greek opposition and irredentism/propaganda in Vienna" might be more suitable. Anti political shills —Preceding undated comment added 09:40, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I am going to remove this personal claim. Per WP:OR and WP:RS. A lot of secondary sources claim the opposite. Jingiby (talk) 10:27, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I recommend avoiding slicing the quote to favour Bulgarian perspectives. WP:NPOV must be respected. Anti political shills (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 10:56, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Per Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (history): history articles should always comply with the major content policies: Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:No original research, and Wikipedia:Neutral point of view. The claim above stating: 'the "Greek opposition" part should remain as that is what is implied in Konstantin Miladinov's letter (a primary source)' is POV and OR. Miladinov himself insisted "I have called Macedonia “Western Bulgaria”, as it should be called." Not due to a Greek opposition. More 3 secondary sources, published by Academic publishers, maintain that the reason while Miladinov called Macedonia (Western) Bulgaria was totally different: 1. This foreign name was recently imposed; 2.It was brought by the Greek propaganda; 3. The author worried that the use of this designation would imply his attachment to the Greek nation. Jingiby (talk) 11:03, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Looking at the primary source, "I have called Macedonia “Western Bulgaria” " implies that the term "Macedonia" for the region is standard standard usage, which Miladinov may not have necessarily agreed with. Anti political shills —Preceding undated comment added 11:29, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The primary source reads: "I have called Macedonia “Western Bulgaria”, as it should be called." Jingiby (talk) 11:43, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest we leave it as it is now; the rest is probably too fine a detail for the introductory paragraph, and is well presented in the annotated references instead. Apcbg (talk) 11:52, 4 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

@Anti political shills: If that's really what the source you're using reads, then maybe you're not using the most reliable sources. See WP:RS for more information. Woshiyiweizhongguoren (🇨🇳) 17:43, 9 April 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Biased article with original research

Tags for biased article and original research were added without to be given any explanation. These tags were removed by me for now, while no discussion was held here to justify them. Jingiby (talk) 05:59, 19 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Jingiby: Hey would you mind not putting those super long passages in the references you are providing? They are very distracting for readers and you are making the reference look very lengthy. If someone is interested in the source, they can open it and find the info there. Also, please stop removing sourced content you don't like. Thanks. DD1997DD (talk) 21:54, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hi, if I put a citation you disagree and delete it, but if I miss it, you put a tag verification failed. Also please do not put older then half a century sources from the time of Communist Yugoslavia as reliable as well some modern instructions for high school graduates from North Macedonia. Please, use modern academic sources from the last 20 years written in English. Also this article is not about the collection called Bulgarian Folk Songs. We have another one. Thanks. Jingiby (talk) 04:51, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

PS. I kindly insist: stop deleting the word Bulgarian, however unpleasant for you. Thanks. Jingiby (talk) 04:56, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Also keep in mind that Wikipedia is not a Wikisource. Thanks. Jingiby (talk) 14:39, 21 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DD1997DD: With your last edit you have delited the author's personal position, that is backed by the Bulgarian scientific community. That was giving NPOV to the article. Please, stop it. Thanks. Jingiby (talk) 09:57, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Jingiby: Please stop acting like this. Why are you moving the information on Bulgarian Folk Songs deeming it irrelevant while keeping information about the author's views ON HIS NATIONALITY on an article about A POEM he wrote INSTEAD OF KEEPING IT IN HIS ORIGINAL ARTICLE? HOW IS THAT RELEVANT AND THE COLLECTION OF POETRY NOT????? DD1997DD (talk) 10:06, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DD1997DD: Then we may delete the whole DISPUTE section. Jingiby (talk) 10:10, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@Jingiby:Well not the whole dispute section but all the parts that are not explicitly about the poem yes. And instead of giving the whole historical background to build up an argument yourself you can look up some sources and see how they talk about the poem and what they say about the historical context. DD1997DD (talk) 10:17, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

@DD1997DD: No more dispute. Jingiby (talk) 10:49, 22 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 7 December 2020

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The poem's author is from Macedonian. He was from Struga which is part of North Macedonia. He proclaimed himself to be an ethnic Macedonian. People of Bulgarian origin falsely claim that the poet was Bulgarian. Perhaps they do so in their strive to perfect plagiarism. Αβερελ (talk) 23:08, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]

We try to reflect what WP:RS say. Please try to limit derisive remarks here. – Thjarkur (talk) 23:22, 7 December 2020 (UTC)[reply]