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Talk:T. Winter-Damon

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His death

[edit]

Here's a link to a confirmation of his death but it doesn't give much detail: t. Winter Damon: RIP LiPollis (talk) 18:14, 19 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Since the original question of t. Winter-Damon's death date, the death and date were referenced. These references were removed, I restored them. Please discuss any reasons for removing them here before doing so. Madamecp (talk) 22:03, 20 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I think we have a wrong obit as well: "Timothy W. Damon, 59, Nov. 28, computer technician." Since it is contentious we should leave it out. Our subject is an author not a tech, most sources for the other material have a hyphenated last name, and I did find a book published in 2010. The other blog sources may have gotten the same wrong info from us or an obit on a person with a similar name. The same thing happened with Henry E. Emerson and the crap really hit the fan over that when we found an obit for a similar name.--Canoe1967 (talk) 21:01, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The entire discussion about the death was deleted from the talk page by ‎68.111.157.182 Here is the deleted text: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:T._Winter-Damon&curid=28881519&diff=561259649&oldid=561253407 This happened at about the same time as 68.111.157.182 deleted a publication bio reference that includes both place of residence and year of death. The 2010 book is the same as the 2000 book of the same name. Click the ISBNs, both lead to Duet for the Devil written by T. Winter-Damon and Randy Chandler. Randy Chandler is alive, there is no reason to believe he wouldn't allow reprints of the book. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Madamecp (talk • contribs) 21:26, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that the death notice referred to a computer technician does not, in itself, mean that it was someone else. As was noted on another page, writers often have day jobs. However, in this case there seems to be reasonable doubt. The name in the death notice and the name of the author are both similar enough and different enough that it isn't obvious whether they are or are not the same person. Robert McClenon (talk) 22:05, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The IP address is a single-purpose account that has never edited any article except T. Winter-Damon and the talk page. It probably either really is the author, in which case he isn't dead, or someone with an agenda about the author. Robert McClenon (talk) 22:08, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

T. Winter-Damon's death was reported by many authors and publishers in 2009. The question of his death on Wikipedia resulted from a tumblr blog under his name (note: anyone can start a tumblr blog under any name) that appeared 2 or less years ago. The tumblr blog was still in existence (and complaining about Wikipedia) earlier today. At this moment it appears to be missing: http://twinterdamon.tumblr.com/ Madamecp (talk) 21:37, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Those other reports should not be considered RS enough for us though. We had the spelling wrong and they may have made the same error. Are there any obits in other newspaper type sites that have our spelling and occupation? All the reports I have seen are blogs and book sites that shouldn't be considered reliable. Someone has complained and regardless of whether they are COI with the subject or a 'fake subject' we should leave it out until we can verify it through a reliable source.--Canoe1967 (talk) 22:09, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
This biography (used for print magazines and books) includes references to both his place and residence and his death. http://cyberpsychos.netonecom.net/bios/TWDamon.html It used to be a reference for his interests in this bio, but was deleted earlier today by the same user who deleted further bio info and the talk page. Book info and ISBN for the publication bio: cyberpsychos.netonecom.net/cpbooks/gospel1/ Madamecp (talk) 22:22, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think that looks like a reliable source. Can you provide a reliable source on the source's reliability? Robert McClenon (talk) 22:49, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
http://cyberpsychos.netonecom.net/index.html is the main site and it looks like a blog. We shouldn't be reporting deaths from blog sites especially after complaints. User talk:PrimalHawaii was another SPA account that had no RS to remove a death date. It turns out he was correct and probably left the project after all the abuse given him. When in doubt then err on the side of caution. It isn't all that important to include until we do have an RS. See also Talk:Jan Mak, a similar case where the subject brought his birth date up at the help desk as an IP with no ID and no source. He was correct as well.--Canoe1967 (talk) 23:04, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The Cyber-Psychos AOD website is the website for a print magazine and a print book line. That it was a print magazine should be easy to reference via a google search: https://www.google.com/webhp#sclient=psy-ab&q=%22Cyber-Psychos+AOD%22&oq=%22Cyber-Psychos+AOD%22&gs_l=hp.3..0i22i30.7885.15670.0.17497.28.22.4.2.3.0.469.3842.0j19j1j1j1.22.0...0.0...1c.1.17.psy-ab.O2xrdgAhDuE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.48293060,d.dmQ&fp=fca19c058ec78b69&biw=1024&bih=582 The bios on the website were used in print publications. That bio was used as a reference for his specialties in writing. I see no reason why it isn't verification that he resided in Tucon, AZ, even if the death itself cannot be proven. isfdb lists Cyber-Psychos AOD as a print magazine and book publisher (the url is different, but it is a subdomain of the same domain): http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/ea.cgi?13846 Madamecp (talk) 23:58, 23 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I have that bio in Cyber-Psychos AOD #4 (1993), which featured t. Winter-Damon (interview, fiction, some nonfiction commentary). The bio states that he resides in Tucson, Arizona. 1993 was before his death was reported, so that isn't mentioned in the bio. I bought most my issues of Cyber-Psychos at bookstores, so it definitely was in print and sold at the stores I bought them in. I don't remember there being any blogs back then?James65.pike (talk) 00:44, 24 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Interviews on the website are stated to be excerpts- the rest is in the print publication. For instance: http://cyberpsychos.netonecom.net/cpaod6/6sleep.html and here's an image of the cover of that issue: http://www.sleepchamber.info/sleepchambercyberpsch.htm (note the mention of t. Winter-Damon) Emory Bortz (talk) 01:29, 24 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oh by the way I remember reading about his death on author's web forums a few years back. However I understand they can't be used as references.James65.pike (talk) 00:55, 24 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Without normal RS on his death he may live 120 years on Wikipedia. That is the policy before we place 'date of death unknown' in the article. I came across another source that has him dying in 2010. Without a reliable source we can't include it. The above mentioned blog/magazine may be popular and accurate with many facts but death dates are normally cited from mainstream media. CyberPsychos AOD and D. F. Lewis can easily be reached by email and may be able to tell us when/where an obit was published in a local paper. A local paper may not have internet archives but a cite to that paper is still acceptable. WP:RX may help as well.--Canoe1967 (talk) 12:12, 24 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
The Cyber-Psychos email address is on the website. I had written her before about using a picture of Lucy Taylor on Wikipedia. So I wrote her again about this issue. This is the response. "I am aware of the problem, and there has been much discussion about it between friends and publishers of Damon in the literary world. I plan to put up a tribute to him, and Peter Gilmore from Grue expressed an intent to do the same. The problem on my end: old files. I salvaged some CPAOD files from 5 1/4 floppies (scary, I know) but a lot remains buried on zip disks and jaz drives. I emailed Wikipedia about this on Saturday morning, and others may have done the same. I included the 2 obituary urls (note that the one about him was actually a morgue listing and therefore brief), which had correct information (Diane is his wife, they even did a small amount of writing together, they lived in Tucson, she preceded him, and that is his family) and attached a screen capture of a social security number verified death certificate. I offered to scan an introductory, mostly biographical, letter with his home address (not something I intend to make public), forward a brief email he sent under his wife's name shortly before he died (that was what he used for personal emails), asked for suggestions of what else to provide, and offered to have others do the same. The response: 'Ticket#2013062210004599 Unfortunately we don't provide such verification services, per our policy on original research. I don't think any additional action is required on this article, as the existing sources seem to be sufficient.' Apparently not everyone agrees with this. Last night I contacted the publisher of Duet For the Devil about the 2010 reprinting (it was originally published in 2000, just as the related books I published by them were from 2001, but I think this was noted). He handled the reprint via Randy Chandler, used a different ISBN, and is also aware that Damon died in 2008. Perhaps someone from Wikipedia should contact him if they have further confusion about it. I don't know what to say, beyond that a lot of people are upset about the lack of clarity on Wikipedia making it easy for someone to poorly impersonate Damon on a tumblr blog and then remove any evidence of the fraud from Wikipedia. I will continue to contact people, as are others, and see if we can get Damon properly memorialised online. The real problem, as you noted, is that so much literature and literary news from the time period was never online to begin with and people seem hard-pressed to believe that a vibrant publishing industry really did exist before the internet was popular." James65.pike (talk) 17:15, 24 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
I see no harm in inclusion on the good faith that the emails are accurate. Can we use the source that had him in the tech profession? This is assuming it is the same person, different job mentioned, and typos in the name.--Canoe1967 (talk) 17:24, 25 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Is this http://tucsoncitizen.com/morgue2/category/local/page/137/ the link you are referring to? If so, what would be the most appropriate place/way to reference this on the page? Byoung67 (talk) 21:02, 25 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]
That is the one I saw before. If the date matches most of the other sources then we can use that as a ref. I will go ahead and add it. If anyone reverts then we can discuss further.--Canoe1967 (talk) 21:17, 25 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I added as references two bios from two different publishers of T. Winter-Damon's books. Both list the same date of death. James65.pike (talk) 19:51, 5 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Restored death info and removed "controversy" paragraph. Person who is claiming the death is a hoax perpetrated by Cyber-Psychos AOD, and that it is only verified by CPAOD, also removed a death date reference from a completely different publisher: Necro Publications, publisher of the book Duet For the Devil Byoung67 (talk) 16:42, 7 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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