Talk:System Divide
G6 Deletion
[edit]The System Divide article was moved to Oracles (band) in a move that has proven to be non-controversial. I am requesting that this page be deleted so that the Oracles (band) page can be moved back to this title until a proper discussion can be had. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 17:06, 21 July 2016 (UTC)
- Why did you do this? HÊÚL. (talk) 10:06, 22 July 2016 (UTC)
- @HÊÚL.: I did it because the name change from System Divide to Oracles is a non-controversial move, based on the fact that at least one other editor objected to the page move. (I can't show a diff, as that page has been deleted in a history merge.) You originally move the page but then another user overwrote your redirect with the original article content, based on the argument that System Divide and Oracles, while comprising many of the same members, are not the same band. System Divide disbanded. And then some time later (about one year later, according to this source), Oracles was formed as a new band with a female lead singer. It can be argued that this is either a simple name change, or that it is a new band comprising members of the old band. But, since it can be argued, it is not a non-controversial page move, and should not have been done without a prior discussion. However, you have now gone ahead and move the page again, but I still think the discussion should be had. (By the way, I have not any skin in this game; I don't care what the article is called, I just think that the controversy should be resolve prior to approving the final article title. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 21:03, 24 July 2016 (UTC)
- Your source says "Well, it seems as though System Divide has resurfaced under a new moniker and featurs a new female lead.". So it had disbanded, reformed and changed name. And we've got this: http://www.metalinjection.net/av/aborted-members-have-a-new-project-called-oracles ("If you're wondering why this sounds so much like System Divide, it's because System Divide changed its name to — you guessed it — Oracles!") and this: http://www.heavyblogisheavy.com/2016/07/20/oracles-miserycorde/ ("It’s no secret that Mendel joining Aborted gave the band a breath of fresh air and carried them to the next level, and with Sanna being drafted to replace Miri, System Divide was reborn as Oracles."). Its Facebook page is in fact the same. They just changed its name and path and deleted everything before the name change. I know because I follow it. HÊÚL. (talk) 00:27, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
- @HÊÚL.: Your Metal Injection source, just before the quote you lifted, also says "Aborted's vocalist Sven De Caluwé, guitarist Mendel Bij de Leij and drummer Ken Bedene have all teamed up to create a new group called Oracles. The band also features ex-System Divide guitarist Steve Miller and ex-Dimlight vocalist Sanna Salou." So, that quote makes me think that Oracles is actually a different band than System Divide. The quote you lifted is a hyperbolic reference to the fact that the bands sound similar based on common membership, but there is enough doubt in that article to render this move one that requires discussion. As for the Misery Corde article, that also mentions the change representing a different band. Bands change lineups all the time without requiring a change of name. By virtue of the fact that this group chose a new name, they are clearly trying to put their association with System Divide behind them. Perhaps Orcales deserves its own article, but System Divide still merits its own article, and mention can be made at both articles about the relationship between them. In any case, whether or not on or two articles is needed is a matter that needs to be discussed rather than just done at the whim of a single editor. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 02:10, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
- The band changed its name because the old moniker belonged to both Sven de Caluwé and Miri Milman. Following their divorce and the temporary dissolution of the band he have to change the name since her departure. HÊÚL. (talk) 00:21, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
- @HÊÚL.: You'll need to provide a reliable source for that. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 04:16, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
- The band changed its name because the old moniker belonged to both Sven de Caluwé and Miri Milman. Following their divorce and the temporary dissolution of the band he have to change the name since her departure. HÊÚL. (talk) 00:21, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
- @HÊÚL.: Your Metal Injection source, just before the quote you lifted, also says "Aborted's vocalist Sven De Caluwé, guitarist Mendel Bij de Leij and drummer Ken Bedene have all teamed up to create a new group called Oracles. The band also features ex-System Divide guitarist Steve Miller and ex-Dimlight vocalist Sanna Salou." So, that quote makes me think that Oracles is actually a different band than System Divide. The quote you lifted is a hyperbolic reference to the fact that the bands sound similar based on common membership, but there is enough doubt in that article to render this move one that requires discussion. As for the Misery Corde article, that also mentions the change representing a different band. Bands change lineups all the time without requiring a change of name. By virtue of the fact that this group chose a new name, they are clearly trying to put their association with System Divide behind them. Perhaps Orcales deserves its own article, but System Divide still merits its own article, and mention can be made at both articles about the relationship between them. In any case, whether or not on or two articles is needed is a matter that needs to be discussed rather than just done at the whim of a single editor. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 02:10, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
- Your source says "Well, it seems as though System Divide has resurfaced under a new moniker and featurs a new female lead.". So it had disbanded, reformed and changed name. And we've got this: http://www.metalinjection.net/av/aborted-members-have-a-new-project-called-oracles ("If you're wondering why this sounds so much like System Divide, it's because System Divide changed its name to — you guessed it — Oracles!") and this: http://www.heavyblogisheavy.com/2016/07/20/oracles-miserycorde/ ("It’s no secret that Mendel joining Aborted gave the band a breath of fresh air and carried them to the next level, and with Sanna being drafted to replace Miri, System Divide was reborn as Oracles."). Its Facebook page is in fact the same. They just changed its name and path and deleted everything before the name change. I know because I follow it. HÊÚL. (talk) 00:27, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
- @HÊÚL.: I did it because the name change from System Divide to Oracles is a non-controversial move, based on the fact that at least one other editor objected to the page move. (I can't show a diff, as that page has been deleted in a history merge.) You originally move the page but then another user overwrote your redirect with the original article content, based on the argument that System Divide and Oracles, while comprising many of the same members, are not the same band. System Divide disbanded. And then some time later (about one year later, according to this source), Oracles was formed as a new band with a female lead singer. It can be argued that this is either a simple name change, or that it is a new band comprising members of the old band. But, since it can be argued, it is not a non-controversial page move, and should not have been done without a prior discussion. However, you have now gone ahead and move the page again, but I still think the discussion should be had. (By the way, I have not any skin in this game; I don't care what the article is called, I just think that the controversy should be resolve prior to approving the final article title. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 21:03, 24 July 2016 (UTC)